Starting Problems w/ SIII

[CRASHCOUNT]

Hello all-

My SIII 109 ('75 model, w/ 2.25 gas burner) won't turn over now. Its been sitting in a shed for the past 9 months (I've been overseas for a while). It was running good when I left it. I had a family member crank it every so often while I was gone, but I guess it was a little too long between intervals.

The battery & starter are in good shape-no problems getting the starter to turn. It just seems that the engine itself won't turn over. I'm guessing that the gas has either drained or evaporated out of the fuel delivery lines somehow. I took the fuel line off of the carb and a little fuel drained out, but that was about it. Also tried spraying some carb cleaner down in the carb. Tried it until the battery went dead, then put the charger on it. Figured I'd see if anybody out here has any good ideas. Do I need to re-prime the fuel lines somehow?

Would appreciate any advice. Thanks

[ArmyRover]

make sure the fuel pump is in working order and as dumb as it sounds is there gas in the tank maybe they let it run to long lol.

of course the old stand by's as well make sure you have spark etc but with a dribble of fuel out of the line it almost makes me think your not getting fuel to the carb.

[XtremeMarine]

Depending on how long you were away, my best guess would be that the carb is varnished up. I am not too sure about your length of time, but with outboards I've seen it happen in as soon as a few months.

[msggunny]

You said that the battery and starter are in good shape, but it wont turn over?

I assume by that you mean that it wont fire while the starter is engaged and spinning the engine, or nothing in the engine moves.

Not trying to be a dick, just want to make sure we have the info correct before we offer up any suggestions.

[TerryS]

If you have fuel in the tanks and have cranked the engine for more than 8-10 seconds, the fuel pump should have brought up enuf fuel to the carb that when you pull the line off the carb, it ought to spray out. If this isn't the case, I suggest you pull the pickup tube out of the tank (2 screws) and check to see that the screen isn't completely fouled.

[CRASHCOUNT]

Originally Posted by msggunny

You said that the battery and starter are in good shape, but it wont turn over?

I assume by that you mean that it wont fire while the starter is engaged and spinning the engine, or nothing in the engine moves.

Not trying to be a dick, just want to make sure we have the info correct before we offer up any suggestions.

The starter turns fine & sounds normal, it just seems that none of the cylinders are firing off.

I went through some manuals & located the priming lever on the fuel pump; going to give that a shot later on today (I must confess to still being in the amateur stage of LR ownership; only had the SIII a few months before I had to take off). If that doesn't work, I'll check out the pick up line.

Also- Can anyone elaborate on what it means for a carb to varnish up, & any associated fixes?

Thanks

[XtremeMarine]

Varnishing is a term which describes the residue fuel's impurities leave behind as fuel evaporates. The older the fuel, the more the octane has broken down, and more residue which gets left. This is why when vehicles are stored it is recommended to put a fuel stabilizer in the tank, and to run the carburetor dry. Running the bowl dry keeps residue from gumming up the holes in the jets, the pick up areas, and the moving parts. In extreme cases, residue can build up so badly, that the residue will actually gum up the fuel lines themselves. Just like an artery being blocked in a stroke victim. Because a carb is open to the air around it, it actually allows exaporation to take place at a higher rate, and allows the entire fuel system to be "open" to the environment. In a fuel injected system, the fuel system is "closed", and kept pressurized at all times. This is why when fuel filters or pumps are changed out on a F.I., the injectors have to be reprimed by letting the pump run for a bit. Same idea in a carbed system why we have to pump the gas. This is all in laymans terms of course, but hope it helps.

[XtremeMarine]

Associated fixes - Carb cleaner sprayed down mouth of carb while hand operating the throat butterfly. Removing the bowl and letting sit 30-45 minutes in carb cleaner. Full rebuild of a carb, Very Simple, as long as done one step at a time.

[CRASHCOUNT]

Thanks for the carb varnish info- definitely keep that in mind for future reference.

Update on current situation- tried the hand priming lever, but no luck. Got a few drops of fuel to come out & thats it.

I think the sediment bowl deal may be the next likely culprit. I checked out the diagram in a Hayne's Service manual I've got, & it looks kind of straight forward. Anything in particular about it, or is it just as easy as taking the screws off the top cover & then pulling it out?

If it is clogged up, I assume you just dump out the stuff, maybe rinse it in some fuel, & then reassemble???

[The Colonel]

Check the choke!!! you wont believe how many people forget to pull it out!! are you in cold climate??? add some dry gas as well. gas conditioner may bring your fuel back. tom

[CRASHCOUNT]

All-

Thanks for the info; unfortunatley my SIII didn't want to cooperate this go-around. I cleaned out the sediment bowl and also took the top part of the fuel pump off (the part not attached to the engine block), but didn't see anything that looked particularly suspicious. I traced the fuel line from the pump to the tank, but didn't come across any breaks. I also put an additional 5 gal of gas in the tank, just to be safe, and I took out the draw tube from the tank, but didn't see anything peculiar about it either.

After all this, I'm still not getting any fuel coming into the lines (Neither the sediment bowl nor the in line fuel filter (between the pump & the carb) have any fuel coming thru). My conclusions at this point are that either something got up in the fuel line & is blocking it, or the fuel pump just quit (I also couldn't get any fuel using the hand priming lever).

Unfortunately, it will be a few months before I can continue the saga, as I have to go away for a bit. My next plan of attack is to order a new fuel line and fuel pump, then replace the old ones. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks--

After all that, I'm still not getting any fuel coming into the

[pickuprover]

Disconnect the fuel line to the carb at the fuel pump and get someone to turn the engine over. If you put your finger over the hole, you should feel pressure exerted on your finger. If not, your diaphram or the valves in your pump are shot. Pick up a rebuld kit and put it in (or just get a new pump if you are not comfortable with the rebuilding yet, then you have a spare to rebuild at a later date....). After years of fighting with my fuel pump, I found out it was because a previous owner had pried the valves out wrong and damaged the seats, causing the valves to never seal right. New pump solved the issue. (a quick touch with the cnc machine on the seats got the old pump up like new as well...) The old style mechanical pumps are very reliable, as long as everything is "right" with them. If the truck has been sitting for a while I would susspect that the diaphram has cracked because it dried out.
If you had of been getting fuel at the carb, then I would say bad gas (spent 1 month sorting that out on the first Landie.... )

[jimfoo]

Or just put a low pressure electric pump inline. I gave up on the stock pump at high altitudes.

[pickuprover]

Originally Posted by jimfoo

Or just put a low pressure electric pump inline. I gave up on the stock pump at high altitudes.

You're brave... how often to you have to refill the smoke in the Lucas electrical system....

[TerryS]

good pump or bad, you can't pull zip through a plugged pickup tube.