93 LWB 10 or 24 spline?

[Paul Grant]

I don't understand the information you have given Muddy Oval.

SAL=SOLIHULL
H(C,E,F,V)=VEHICLE TYPE
1(2,3)=BODY TYPE
1(2,3)=ENGINE TYPE
4=TRANSMISSION TYPE
HA=1987
JA=1988
KA=1989
LA=1990
MA=1991
NA=1992
PA=1993
RA=1994
SA=1995
LAST SIX NUMBERS ARE THE SERIAL NUMBER OF THE VEHICLE

So, from the numbers you posted above you seem to be saying that anything after JA (1988) is a 24 spline truck. I know and you know that this is wrong. Are you saying that the model year nomenclature changes from country to country? Or is JA the license plate designation for 1993 in the UK?

We also know from first hand experience along with evidence found on rangerovers.net as well as countless other sources that the changeover in the LWB began mid year 1993. I have enough grease on my hands to know this as a fact.

I also think you have the VIN number thing screwed up as well as the higher VIN would indicate a later production date and a greatly likelihood of the changeover to 24 spline.

"So, if you have and early VIN you should have 24 spline, a later VIN would have 10 spline. "

This is all relatively unimportant stuff especially considering that we are talking about trucks going on fifteen years old that have been through countless hands providing all kinds of opportuniity for things to have been changed by previous owners. So, for those who have trucks that are from model year 1993 that are unsure about what they have, pull a half shaft and check. It's not that hard to do or that time consuming. Now, as far as others making claims about what they've read, all I can say is I have had my hands dirty enough times with these trucks and know exactly what I've seen...AND read. I have posted accordingly.

[Muddy Oval]

JA is the "rest of world" designation for 1992. In North America, it is NA for 1992.
Parts book (latest version of Microcat, from Land Rover) says:
"SHAFT- REAR AXLE, 24 SPLINE TO JA624754"
"SHAFT- REAR AXLE, 10 SPLINE FM JA624756"
There is also a listing for 10 AND 24 spline axles with no vin information as well, both from JA624517.
Keep in mind that they are referring to JA as 1992 (only in North America do we have the NA code meaning 1992).
Basically, that means they can have either.

[Paul Grant]

Has anyone ever seen an originally equipped 24 spline 1992 Range Rover???? Land Rover also introduced the LWB in 1992 but I have never seen one here in the US. Didn't US model year designation differ from the ROW? The LWB I bought in November of 1993 was built in either late June or early July of 1993 but is was a US MY 1994 with an RA VIN. Wouldn't that have been a 1993 MY truck in the UK? Using the ROW Parts CD is only adding more confusion rather than helping out with when the US trucks began arriving with 24 spline equipment.

[Paul Grant]

I also cannot understand how a higher serial number can mean an earlier production vehicle. According to what you are saying, a truck with a lower serial number is more likely to have the 24 spline set up. Again, doesn't a lower serial number mean earlier production? Isn't is safe to say that a vehicle with a serial number xx500 was made before a vehicle with a serial number of x1500? This seems to fly in the face of what your CD is saying.

"SHAFT- REAR AXLE, 24 SPLINE TO JA624754"
"SHAFT- REAR AXLE, 10 SPLINE FM JA624756"

I would take that to mean that the later a truck was made, the greater the likelihood is has 10 spline axles.

[Muddy Oval]

Well, that's from the software Land Rover provides to dealers etc- I don't think anyone ever would claim it as horribly accurate, but that's what they've got. It is possible that it is exactly backwards, but that's what is listed.
The model year designation thing messes with a lot of people's heads, they stopped doing different codes in 1996 at TA. Before that, the US ones go backwards in sequence, but for every other market in the world they went back to MA in 1995 and then went back sequentially.
In 2001, they went to a letter and number (2001=1A, 2002=2A, 2003=3A etc).
Apologise for the slight hijack- but it's interesting info.

found another VIN split:
24 spline to HA610293 (1991) W/ABS
10 spline to HA610293 (1991) W/O
It shows overall that 10 and 24 were available on all years of RRC.

[Paul Grant]

Steve, the more information you post on this thread the less helpful it is. Now the claim is that you could always get 24 spline diffs and axles on Range Rovers. You know full well that that is not the case, especially here in the US market, nevermind the ROW. Maybe you're talking about the spline count at the CV but then what about Suffix A & B half shafts? Didn't Suffix B half shafts have 31 or 32 splines at the CV?

Bottom line, none of this addresses the question at hand.

"Does anyone know at what VIN # LR changed from 10 spline to 24 spline?"

The model year designation thing doesn't mess with my head. We are interested in when 24 spline diffs came standard on US models, not ROW. So, continually bringing up data for the ROW MY's isn't helping here at all. Based on what I have physically seen and read, the changeover took place here in the US on all NAS LWB models sometime at the beginning of calender year 1993 and those vehicles had PA VIN's. I don't care what a CD about the ROW says.

By the way, what was the spline count on the front diff on you old 110? I was never quite sure about the way those NAS Defenders were built up compared to the ROW.

[Sign Guy]

Wow, that was a real round about thread but if I understand your post as long as I have PA in my vin then I have 24's right? (huhmmm, and I'm not talking rim size ).

THANKS!

[rezdiver]

I have a 93 LWB produced 03/93 with 10 splines, i also worked on a couple of later 93LWB's and they were close to the same months with 10 and 24 spline. serial numbers as mentioned can be confusing, pull the shaft to confirm it, takes half an hour.
cheers,
Reza

[Paul Grant]

Hi Bill,
No, it's not that simple. In US VIN numbers PA indicates the 1993 model year (July 8, 1992 through June 21, 1993). What has yet to be resolved regardless of all the information Steve has posted from CD's containing part numbers for the rest of the world (ROW) is when, in the US, Range Rovers started arriving with 24 spline diffs and half shafts.

It has been my contention based on personal experience and information I have read that the changeover occurred in early 1993 (perhaps January or February). I have seen a number of 1993 LWB's that had 10 spline diffs and half shafts, all with 1992 build dates. Honestly, I have yet to see a 1993 LWB with 24 spline gear but I know they exist.

I gave you the VIN serial number off the truck I just finished with to see whether it was older than yours (which it appears to be). With that in mind, you may very well have 24 spline gear. The only way to know for sure is to pull one of the half shafts. Once you do you will immediately know by the number of splines at the diff end of the shaft.

Since your truck was made later in the model year I would be very curious to know what you have. THe number of trucks made between yours and mine is only 1977. If you have 24 spline gear it would be safe to say that the changeover occurred somewhere between our two trucks.

As far as the claim that

"10 and 24 were available on all years of RRC."

is patently false. End of story.

Other claims such as

"SHAFT- REAR AXLE, 24 SPLINE TO JA624754"
"SHAFT- REAR AXLE, 10 SPLINE FM JA624756"

have nothing to do with the US NAS models and make absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Do us all a favor, pull a rear half shaft and report back your findings. At least then we'll have some idea of where the changeover might have taken place.
Cheers,
Paul

[Sign Guy]

Hey rezdiver what is your VIN? I will go ahead and pull my shafts as soon as I can.

[p76rangie]

All this discussion could have been avoind if 5 bolts had been removed and pulled the half shafts.

In regard to whether a 10 or 24 spline is stronger, you have to take into account the whole set-up. The CVs in the later rangies are weaker and I do not like the idea of the wheel bearings being closer together. The 24 spline axle is slightly thicker at the spline, which makes it slightly stronger at this point. But Landrover made their axles out of crappy steel and both 10 and 24 splines will shear at the diff centre if shock loaded hard enough.

[TerryS]

The 10th digit in a 17 digit VIN number defines the year of manufacture, and has nothing to do with what market it was intended for.

http://www.autoinsurancetips.com/vin.htm

I was always under the impression that the change from 10 spline was mid 1993 model year for the LWB, and SWB changed either late 93 or into '94. In any case, they never went to 24 spline, and then back to 10 spline.

As P76Rangie pointed out, the axle breakage almost always occurs just outside the spider, but that's a function of the material and diameter, not the spline count. The increased number of splines was to lessen the stripping of the splines.

[sven]

If I remember correctly, the 10 to 24 spline split was in 93 and it depended on the axle number and not VIN number. Its printed somewhere in the RN catalog.

[p76rangie]

By the drive pressure being spread over 24 points instead of 10, it causes less wear and stress on each point. Even though I have seen warn splines, I have not seen stripped ones. It is the axle itself that breaks.

[Muddy Oval]

Originally Posted by TerryS

The 10th digit in a 17 digit VIN number defines the year of manufacture, and has nothing to do with what market it was intended for.

Actually- you're wrong on this one. All pre-96 Land Rover VINs differ depending on if they are North American or "Rest of World." They used different date codes- I wouldn't really expect an auto insurance web site to know that, but it's something you run into every day dealing with Rovers from other countries.