ABS-BLoody confused

[BIG JIM]

I wish the thick range rover repair manual (green bible) was that well detailed.That thing is pretty vague with all repairs. I found that the Haynes was much better. Nice job Hank............ Jim 95 LWB

[MuddyRangeRover]

Hank thanks. Well described, looks like it **might** be a little out of my reach in terms of ability. That's what I said about my Tcase in the Jeep, and I changed it for another one when It broke. SO you never know.

Now the second part of My Q. What exactly do I need and from what year to make my axles *stronger*. Also, can I just upgrade the rear, as I will only be locking the rear?
I have access to a 92 RRC, would that stuff work?

EDIT: NVM, answered my own Q. In 1995 they upgraded to 24 spline. DAMN.

[KevinNY]

To strengthen the rear you just need to slide Rovertracks axles back in when reassembling, you REALLY need to buy a Haynes maual and read it. Hank is Dan? Unbelieveable.

[Paul Grant]

I'm not cleat on whether Muddy Range Rover said, in his post above, that HIS truck was upgraded to 24 spline diffs in '95 or if '95 was the year that Rover upgraded the diffs to 24 spline (it was actually mid year '93).

Kevin, are your Rovertracks half shafts 24 spline at the diff or 10 spline?

MRR, if you need a 24 spline diff for your truck contact me as I still have a couple left for $150 plus shipping. Since you have ABS you shouldn't need to change your stub axles or hubs (but definitely repack those bearings).

As far as cleaning up the bearings, get a small bucket, some mineral spirits and a brush. Soak and clean the bearings thoroughly. Once you've gotten every bit of residue out of them spin them to make sure that they are still smooth and reusable. They are Timken 37's so they are easily replaceable and not that expensive should you find that you need them.
Cheers,
Paul

paulgrant@mac.com

[MuddyRangeRover]

No i was saying that according to RR.net, they upgraded to 24 spline in 95.
Mine is most likely still 10spline.

My huge dilemma is whether or not I should focus first on lifting the truck, anmd then worry about lockers and axles the following year, or if I should get the axles and upgrade my rear.
Hmmm...

[Paul Grant]

i don't know how big a lift you are looking for but, if you intend on putting larger tires on the truck they will increase the stress on the half shafts. I went up to 235/85/16's in my old Series III and broke a rear half shaft pulling away from a stop light. Granted, old Series half shafts were notorious for their weakness. Nevertheless, if you increase the size of your tires and put the truck through serious wheeling, the likelihood of snapping a half shaft will increase.

Now 24 spline half shafts won't entirely solve your problem either as people have been know to snap them as well. Hence the popularity of HD half shafts like the Rovertracks that Kevin has. The problem with deciding to go with a 24 spline diff and HD half shafts means that you have shifted the likelihood for trail carnage from the shafts to the diff. That's why GBR and others offer alternatives for beefing up the diffs.

It all comes down to choices and the money you are willing to throw at the solution. No one can answer that question but yourself.

[MuddyRangeRover]

I totally agree with what you are saying Paul, and it is true , I have to make the ultimate decision for myself.

I won't run larger than 32's, at MOST I may go to a 33, but not anytime soon. having said that, I will like to lock my rear eventually, sometime after the lift in spring(hopefully I can lift it in the spring). I don't wheel hardcore-pedal-to-the-medal style. I try to be careful and pick my right lines, so snapping the 24spline shafts may not be too huge of a concern at the beginning. I also rarely do any rocks at all.

Having said all that, I am notorious for starting a project, and the when I am well on my way of completion(or at least have gotten almost where I want it), I sell it and abandon it( I did that with my BMW's, then with the Jeep, etc). anyway, I am hoping to keep the RR for MUCH MUCH longer than the rest(perhaps even permanently as a trail rig one day), and if that is the case, than over time I will be upgrading this, that, and the other.

At first I want to learn to wheel it(as it is different from my old Cherokee) and learn about its mechanics and etc.
So possibly upgrading my rear to 24 spline might be a good start. I just don't know if I should wait to do it, or do it now(or at least get the parts ready).

Awww the dilemma's...

[stevo-II]

This may have already been said, but I have a habit for not reading each post completely - the 1992 RRC that you have access to for parts will not help you - I don't think LR went to 24 splines until 1993 and that was only on the LWB models??? (actually I'm not sure when the 100" wheelbase went to 24 spline, but I'm pretty sure it was 1993 or later). If it did have 24 splines, then thats a good option, cause its cheap....

The good news is that you already have the ABS hubs, so no need to swap that out. Personally, I would save up your money, buy upgraded aftermarket 24 splines AND some type of rear locker or limited slip or something at the same time - the spider gears/carrier in the LR diff (even the 24 splines) are pretty weak, like Paul said, you will then trash diffs - you might even do that before you snap a 10 spline shaft depending on how your luck runs.

Doing stuff a "little at a time" always ends up more expensive than just doing it right the first time. I have a 1992 Base model RRC - no ABS, I'm saving money, going to upgraded 24 splines and most likely a true-trac limited slip in the rear - nothing too serious, but I just don't want to worry about the rear end anymore, just get it over with - and I only run 31's!! Until then, I'm just easy on my 10 splines - I figure if I got to pay a guy to set up a LR stock diff to move to 24 splines, it might as well be a limited slip or locker - don't pay to have the rear end set up twice. I figure with a relatively bulletproof rear end and swapping to an LT230, I could always drive home, even if I trash the front diff/axles/CVs

Hope this helps - sorry, I was notorious for cutting corners, then having to re-do it again later, fortunately, I think I've learned my lesson, just do it right the first time, it hurts a little more, but not near as much as spending a bunch of money to only break something else and then having to start over again.

Steve

[MuddyRangeRover]

Originally Posted by stevo-II

The good news is that you already have the ABS hubs, so no need to swap that out. Personally, I would save up your money, buy upgraded aftermarket 24 splines AND some type of rear locker or limited slip or something at the same time - the spider gears/carrier in the LR diff (even the 24 splines) are pretty weak, like Paul said, you will then trash diffs - you might even do that before you snap a 10 spline shaft depending on how your luck runs.



Doing stuff a "little at a time" always ends up more expensive than just doing it right the first time. I have a 1992 Base model RRC - no ABS, I'm saving money, going to upgraded 24 splines and most likely a true-trac limited slip in the rear - nothing too serious, but I just don't want to worry about the rear end anymore, just get it over with - and I only run 31's!! Until then, I'm just easy on my 10 splines - I figure if I got to pay a guy to set up a LR stock diff to move to 24 splines, it might as well be a limited slip or locker - don't pay to have the rear end set up twice. I figure with a relatively bulletproof rear end and swapping to an LT230, I could always drive home, even if I trash the front diff/axles/CVs

Hope this helps - sorry, I was notorious for cutting corners, then having to re-do it again later, fortunately, I think I've learned my lesson, just do it right the first time, it hurts a little more, but not near as much as spending a bunch of money to only break something else and then having to start over again.

Steve

Ok, good points. Just a couple of Questions/comments.
I go to school, work PT and have 2 vehicles, I also go out a lot, buy clothes, colognes, gadgets, and have a g/f. THere is no way in hell for me(unfortunately ) that I will be able to save enough to do upgraded diffs, axles, AND a locker at once. It would take me forever to save up. If I was working FT, then for sure it would be feasable, but unfrortunately not, even though, like you said, in the long run it might end up costing me more, but at the time, that's the only way.

Now, a Q, isn't the new diff a drop in? Why would I need to pay someone to install it (just curious if it is harder than I thought).
DOn't I just remove the rear 2 axles, remove the Rear D-shaft, unbolt the diff, remove it, and put the 24spline stuff in? Is it more involved than that?
I won't be upgrading to the LT230, not for a while. If it ever grenades, I *may*consider it, but not for now. So that's a bit less work for me to have to do(although it would be nice to have the option of Manual diff lock, as opposed to automatic, and strenght of gears vs. chain).

Now, rovertracks HD axles are about 400 a pair. How much are the HD 24 spline diff's, and from where? (just so i know)

Thanks for the feedback.

[stevo-II]

I understand you delima - trust me. I'm just thinking - don't rush into it and buy axles just yet....the debate is still out on how tough the 24 spline with a stock open carrier is vs 10 spline (I think the carrier is still the weak link) - when you start locking the rear end, then the 24 splines shine (I wouldn't lock a 10 spline rear end), but as long as the rear end is open, I'm not sure your getting a lot for your time and money - I think one wheel will spin before you break something.

Hopefully someone with better experience can answer - if your just buying the 24 spline carrier then I would think the gears would need to be setup again - i.e. the mesh between the pinion and ring gear - maybe if you have a complete third member then it could possibly be bolt in since the relationship between the pinion and ring gear remain fixed, but - but how much can you get a complete 24 spline diff for? A trutrac for 24 splines is only $431 at the link below - re-use your pinion, ring gear and the thirdmember housing - the tru-trac replaces the guts of the diff and its stronger - someone would have to set the gear backlash again for you (thats something I figure a pro should do - not exactly sure of the cost) but then you would have a much stronger diff, a limited slip - you say your not hardcore wheeling, so it might be a good match.

This is what I would love to do, BUT I've got a non ABS truck and I would have to buy ABS hubs to fit the 24 spline axles, so more money.....I think GBR makes an 24 spline that I can use - I don't think rovertracks does, but if they are a couple hundred cheaper, it might be worth the hub swap.


Maybe if you can find stock 24 spline axles cheap and throw in the tru-trac for 24 splines, that would be a good combo (instead of 24 splines + 24 spline diff). But I think your headed in the right direction - some would say to run the equipment you have until it fails you, then you know what to upgrade, but that's a sinking feeling when it does break.

But honestly, lets face it, you can't afford a girlfriend and a land rover at the same time....LOL...one of them has to go!!!!

http://www.drivetrainspecialists.com...ndrover-1.html

Anyways, good luck - and hey, enjoy the truck for a while, I've got 10 splines with open diffs still and I wheel the crap out of mine, I just don't get too crazy with the skinny pedal....

Steve

ps - personally I think the new color of your truck ROCKS!!!

[MuddyRangeRover]

I understand your outlook. I really gotta see my finances after the holidays. Paul grant's price seems fair( a bit out of my budget right this second), but fair. Anyway, it would be a complete drop in, no set-ups necessary. Just drop in and go. Then lock it, either TT or Detroit. As you said, they replace a few of the inner parts of the diff with stronger stuff. I personally don't think I will be breaking them anytime soon, as like you, I take it easy on the skinny. Personally I have seen people break D44, D60's and HD toy axles, on same or similar obstacles that I took my D30/D35 Jeep on. Its all in how you wheel.
Over aggression is never fun. We shall see.

As far as the g/f comment goes, made me laugh.