Another Oil Question

[gordo]

Yeah, he could have been I had a hard time following all the posts! I still think just change the oil regularly with a recommended oil grade and run a good filter and you are good.

[MysteryTheatre]

anyway getting back to the original subject of viscosity index (NOT VISCOSITY)
i am interested in any oils that have a viscosity index above 150 for a 10-40 or higher viscosity you can check what your oil is on the manufacturer's website
under the PDS . tell us what you use and what the viscosity index is the person with the highest number wins end of story. and by the way that penrite oil only has a viscosity index of 127 embarrassingly low, your lucky you even have cam lobes.

[Elemental]

I was talkign about Ford and Honda about 5-20.

Its amazing to me, that in the 21st century, that it is acceptable for a lubricated internal engine part to wear out in 60,000 miles.

I have personally rebuilt a Rover V8, did nothign special to it. It was fed rotella its whole life.....At about 90,000 I had a valve spring take a poo(Cracked). While Replacing it, and the intake gasket that was leaking, I used my handy run out gauge on the Cam...Very light wear marks, and on the higher side of spec for a new cam...I didnt meaure it when new, so that tolerance might have been there already. The lifters face showed no caving in.....Dont these engines eat cams? Hmmmmm.


Care to tell me why? Likely not, that would mean the uninformed would have to conceed they were wrong.... That just doesnt happen on this board.

But, I am dying to know... Why would you replace a engine with near perfect bearings? If the compression was in spec, and the bearigns near perfect......This sounds like a servicable engine. Why did you replace it?

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by Elemental

But, I am dying to know... Why would you replace a engine with near perfect bearings? If the compression was in spec, and the bearigns near perfect......This sounds like a servicable engine. Why did you replace it?

Again you show your ignorance!
Where did I say the compression was in spec (it was, but I have never said this) you just make things up as you go along.
And the bearings were vitually the same as when I put them in and in that motor I ran 25w/70. Shock, horror.

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by MysteryTheatre

anyway getting back to the original subject of viscosity index (NOT VISCOSITY)
i am interested in any oils that have a viscosity index above 150 for a 10-40 or higher viscosity you can check what your oil is on the manufacturer's website
under the PDS . tell us what you use and what the viscosity index is the person with the highest number wins end of story. and by the way that penrite oil only has a viscosity index of 127 embarrassingly low, your lucky you even have cam lobes.

Isn't it wonderful how people get fixated on one measure of oil.
If you actually checked their website you would have seen that the oil I use HPR15 has a viscosity index of 151. In the range that you want info on (10W/40) the viscosity index is 158 in their normal oil and 176 in their synthetic oil.
No wonder my engine doesn't wear.
Now put this one measure into context. The viscosity index is how much the oil thins when heated. It is more important with the tinner oils than the higher viscosity oils. So a 15w/60 oil can thin a lot more than a 10w/40 and still over greater shear protection.
Penrite's normal 5W/? oil has a viscosity index of 167 and their Synth is 186.
So based on your limited selection criteria, my oil beats what you require and I could go a lot higher on oil costing the same price as what I am using. But a thin oil that doesn't thin as quickly does not offer the same protection as the thicker oil.

[p76rangie]

For those that may be reading this thread for some info on oil, rather than the entertainment, there is an easy way to tell how high the Viscosity Index is, without looking up data sheets. Simly look at the viscosity range of the oil. The larger the gap between the upper and lower figures, the higher the index. As this is what the index means. That is, how well it maintains is viscosity under heat.
So my oil is a 15w/60, a lot broader range than your cheaper 20w/50 oils. Penrites Synthetic oils are 5W/60, which is a huge range for such a light weight oil and that is why it has such a high index. Even their 10w mineral oil is a 10W/50, not 10w/40 recommended by others on this thread. That is why you will not find a 10W/40 with a high index as a high index would most likely make it a 10w/50.

So back to my original comments. Don't worry about all the technology, just stick with a good reputable brand that meets current standards. To some degree you get what you pay for, but this does not mean that you have to go overboard and buy the most expensive. I run full synthetic in my motorcycle, as the technology requires it, your old lump of a Rover V8 does not. Due to what I put my motor through, I do run a Synthetic blend, but it is still half the price of full synthetic.

[TerryS]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

For those that may be reading this thread for some info on oil, rather than the entertainment, .

I'm reading it for both reasons. Well, That and somebody mentioned popcorn.
You're both way smarter than I'll ever be when it comes to the science of oils, and I agree with Gordo, at least as it pertains to my advanced years and capacity to absorb more info, It's more info than I need. I stick to the same philosophy I was taught when I got my first car; use the best oil you can get, and change it, and the filter as often as driving conditions dictate. There was a time, in my struggling youth, that I bought what was on special, but now I avoid places like Walmart like the plague, and prefer to use what engine manufacturers recommend, instead of what discount chain buyers get the best deal on. If I take a few drops of oil on my fingertip, swirl it for a minute on a piece of clean sheet metal, and it leaves a swirl, it's dirty.
I will simply add to the conversation that bearings that show anything but pure babbit, as in even a trace of copper color showing, are shot. What I made my living at was metalurgy, and I can say, having looked at them with more than a million dollar investment in labratory equipment, Land Rover manufactured camshafts are not heat treated to a case depth nearly as deep as those manufactured by people such as Isky, Crane, and nearly every US car manufacturer would use. This is as much a function of the metalurgical property of the steel, as it is the heat treat process. I have been saving for a rainy day project, and old Buick 215 18 bolt block and set of heads. While I'm sure I won't reuse them, I also have the cam and lifters that came out that engine. They are as fresh and unworn as the day the were assembled. I can only surmise that this is due solely to their chemistry and heat treatment. There's no difference in the oil pump and distribution on this 40 year old engine and that of all pre'96 Land Rover engines.

[MysteryTheatre]

than your oil has a superior shear resistance. and your engine should enjoy a long and happy life. any chance you could mail me a case of that stuff?

[MysteryTheatre]

hey p76 rangie :actually the term thin is not quite right , the test for viscosity index is a measure of viscosity NOT density. thinner implies less dense molecular structures therefore more room between molecules. the test is done , if you would have read above , with a diesel injector nozzle 1400psi they try to shear the molecules that way. and then report the oils resistance to shearing. long chain hydro-carbon molecules can break and re form in a million different ways, which is the reason the higher Viscosity oils usually have the lower VI in a family
of oils. of course you live down under where they probably just stick a quart in a crocadiles mouth and see what happens.

[HorribleHarry]

so ummmm
what oil should I be using?

[MysteryTheatre]

i'd use any oils that have a shear stability (viscosity index) of 150 or higher for 10w40. valvoline maxlife, phillips 66 , kendal, and super 76 are some i know of. i believe pretty much all synthetics are at least this good... but do you want to run synthetics in this dinosaur, i believe their ultra-pure bases and high tech additives are worse for the gaskets and even cause glazing on the bores.
my advice: look up some oils available to you, find an affordable dino brand with good shear stability and change it regular. good luck and by the way just cause you are using the 10w40 as a reference to compare viscosity indexes, i'd only run that in the winter use 15-40 or 20 50 or a mix of the two in all other seasons... just my cent and half.

[jimfoo]

Some info, to fan the flames.
From: ConocoPhillips Company <lubricants@conocophillips.com>
To: DENNIS GAMBLE <dgamble@westernpetro.com>
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 3:34:59 PM
Subject: Lubestream Direct Connect :: Reformulation of 20W50 Racing Oil


Lubestream Direct Connect


February 22, 2008

Dear ConocoPhillips Lubricants Marketer,

As part of our ongoing commitment to identify
and provide you, our valued Marketers, with
products, programs and tools to help you grow
your business, we are pleased to announce that
76 High Performance Motor Oil SAE 20W-50,
Kendall GT-1. High Performance Motor Oil SAE
20W-50 and Phillips TropArtic. Racing Motor Oil
20W-50 will be reformulated. The reformulated
oils will contain a boosted level of zinc
dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP) in order to offer
enhanced wear protection and oxidation
resistance for use in the most demanding
applications. The new formulations will be in
production in all plants by March 1.

We are confident that the enhanced formulation
will address concerns within the industry about
current ILSAC GF-4 and API SM engine oils and
whether they contain sufficient levels of ZDDP
to protect older engines, especially
high-performance engines with flat-tappet
camshafts. The newly reformulated SAE 20W-50
viscosity grades of 76 High Performance Motor
Oil, Kendall GT-1. High Performance Motor Oil
and Phillips TropArtic. Racing Motor Oil will
contain approximately 1200 ppm zinc. Higher
levels of ZDDP, which provide antiwear/antiscuff
protection as well as oxidation inhibition, can
help protect these new camshafts during the critical break-in period.

The reformulated SAE 20W-50 viscosity grades
will continue to provide excellent protection in
gasoline-fueled competition engines,
turbocharged engines, and high-performance
street engines, including those with flat-tappet camshafts.

Please be sure to share this exciting
reformulation announcement with your customers
who service high-performance racing engines and
stay tuned for announcements about the
availability of this reformulated product.
Please contact your MSR with any questions.

Sincerely,





Phil Sontag
Director of Marketing, Automotive Lubricants

[MysteryTheatre]

i guess the downside is the zddp is tough on the catylitic converter. i live in a rural area that require a one time california emmisions test. my 89 county passed with flying colors , and since i don't have to resmog ever! i will continue to use the phillips trop artic . its the best oil for the money in my humble opinion.