Distributor install & Timing?

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by bartell

It is a small matter that can make the installation of a new distributor hellish if p76rangie's instructions.

Many manuals mention it (off hand you can check one of the Haynes. [from memory]), but any Rover old timer knows of it from their first bad experience with this. The fact that P76rangie doesn't know or understand it does not mean that others will not suffer if they adopt his lack of awareness.

But P76rangie is different. He doesn't care whether he is right, only that he is not disputed in any way. He rages and throws tantrums with ANYONE who tries to correct him. His manner scares your forum's safety net away and THAT makes him VERY dangerous amongst your flock.

On the other hand, I am enjoying P76rangie immensely. I see you allow him a wide license with his kindergarden abuse but I have been circumspect at all times with him.

Remember, he HAS assured the forum that he feels himself "brilliant and doesn't give a 'f--k' about anyone"..so he is immune and only benefits can result for everyone else. For the sake of the others, you do NOT want this guy around without some sort of leash.

You Idiot!!!
Seeing that virtually everything that you have posted on this forum has proved to be crap. I thought you would be use to being proved to be an idiot. But you keep on coming back with these ramblings.

You keep on referring to your Haynes Manual any working on your car.

[mutator]

Wow! thanks for all the replies. I am going to read thru them now. Yes, I screwed up
when I went to replace my rotor...I wasn't really pulling hard, but the shaft pulled up,
the springs below went sprong, and I felt like an idiot. Yes, I also thought that because
it seems keyed to the oil sump that it could only be 180 degrees out of wack, but I guess I am wrong there. Hoping you all have set me straight. Thanks again for the responses.
Mark

[mutator]

okay...I know I am not the only one to have to replace a Distributor. It is great to get the responses from you guys, but it is still a bit unclear as to the best course of action for
me to take. I think it would be good to have this documented here for others who may need this. TerryS - can you sum up the procedure?
I owned a Series III and found the old school a little easier to tech than my 1994 Rangie
4.2, but the RR's are such a sweet beast after the austere beauty of a Series.
Thanks for the input guys!

[bartell]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

You Idiot!!!
Seeing that virtually everything that you have posted on this forum has proved to be crap. I thought you would be use to being proved to be an idiot. But you keep on coming back with these ramblings.

You keep on referring to your Haynes Manual any working on your car.

Dear p76rangie,

Abuse and foul language doesn't change the truth, it simply makes one be perceived as abusive and foul-mouthed.

This thread displayed two primary characteristics and admittedly, I tried to bring them out for any audience that might have followed this.

1. You have little experience and get confused pathetically easily

2. You become enraged at the least suggestion you have erred or missed something..

They excite pity more than anything else.

You are an example of a psychiatric phenomena the medical community is focusing on now. Otherwise normal citizens have created Jekyll & Hyde persona for themselves using chat and talk forums. They vent their life's frustrations and rage on anywhere that will allow them..like enraged "streakers". Sincerely, you need help. Have a friend in your "real" world read your rantings. They will confirm you write emotionally crippled.

For the others, please do not let p76rangie's constant rages discourage you from contributing or asking questions. A review of his postings will show he has and does act that way constantly with scores here.

James

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by bartell

1. You have little experience and get confused pathetically easily

You Idiot!
Do you seriously want me to go through all the threads you have posted on in recent weeks and what you have posted. We could start by how you state as proven fact on a dyno that going to a composite head gasket will drop your power by 10%. You are a person that lives through the experiences of others as you have none of your own.

This was an interesting way to prime a oil pump on a series 2 Discovery. Nowhere to run a drill to and you should never pack it with petroleum jelly.

Originally Posted by bartell

It is necessary. Many professionals fashion a shaft with a female fitting to use with a high speed drill and turn the pump gear through the distributor shaft to oil the engine and prime the pump.. but most still use the petroleum jelly method.

Remove the oil pump cover (you will need a new gasket). Keep the jelly in the refrigerator overnight. That will give a few more seconds before it starts falling on your nose while you replace the cover and gasket while holding the two gears in place.

James (waiting for his stalker)

Also loved how you can diagnose a problem based on a few words on the internet. I bet you now wished you had waited for a few more clues before jumping in on that one. I also think your theory of adjusting the slop in a manual transmission is good.

Originally Posted by bartell

You have play in your driveline.

When you lay off the throttle, you change angles in the driveline and torque. If there is too much play somewhere (anywhere) in the whole driveline, it will result in what you are experiencing. If diagnosed quickly, the fix is normally minor. But if it is allowed to continue, it will start breaking more important components.

I am not completely Disco familiar but I recall (dimly) that one can adjust the play at the tranny. Maybe one of the others can confirm.

James

I also love this one about honing the bores with the block still in the vehicle. So with the crank still in place, how exactly are you going to get all the fine metal filing out of the motor after you do the hone.

I also love the test about putting the ring in the bore. First off, where would he get a NEW ring from. If it was from buying a new set, then he would have wasted his money if it needed a rebore. and secondly what you would describe would not show up if the bore was out of round. What about checking the pistons for wear, etc. There is also your suggestion of replacing the bearings without removing the motor, but not a lot of detail on how. How do you drop the rear bearing and manage to reseal it with the motor still attached to the transmission?
This post typifies why I argue with clowns like you. You can cause that much damage if someone actually listened to you.

Originally Posted by bartell

I'm with Terry. There is nothing you want to do so far that requires the risks and hassles of taking the engine out.

On the other hand, a ring job isn't much good for long if your bores are worn. (very possible). You can check that with a single new ring. Put it in and see what the gap is.

If your gap is within tolerance, do your ring job, change your bearings, have your heads professionally examined and skimmed if necessary. Yours is a pre-stretch bolt model, but I would still suggest you use new head and bottom end bolts.

If your gap is too wide, deeply consider pulling the engine to rebore for 20 over.

James

P.S. Rings should cost you around 40-50£ for a set.

Originally Posted by bartell

You are an example of a psychiatric phenomena the medical community is focusing on now. Otherwise normal citizens have created Jekyll & Hyde persona for themselves using chat and talk forums. They vent their life's frustrations and rage on anywhere that will allow them..like enraged "streakers". Sincerely, you need help. Have a friend in your "real" world read your rantings. They will confirm you write emotionally crippled.

For the others, please do not let p76rangie's constant rages discourage you from contributing or asking questions. A review of his postings will show he has and does act that way constantly with scores here.

Outside having a little fun as always referring to you as the idiot you are. it appears that you are the only one going into long speeches.

Now get your nose out of the Haynes manual and get out there and experience something.

[TerryS]

Originally Posted by mutator

TerryS - can you sum up the procedure?

Only because you asked me to. As near as I am able to weed out between Ian's posts, and Jame's posts, with respect to the original question, is that they are essentially saying the same thing, and only differ in symantics.

The only reason the re-installation of a Land Rover distributor is not slam-bam simple, is, that inside Land Rover engines, the Distributor is driven by the cam, and the oil pump is driven by the distributor. This is a throwback to the old buick engine, where the external oil pump was mounted to the front cover.
In many other engines, if not most, the oil pump is internal and is driven directly from the cam, and the slot atop the oil pump shaft only allows the distributor to be dropped into one of two positions (if not just one when the key between the two is off center) In a Land Rover engine, the distributor can be dropped into one of 14 different positions (because there are 14 teeth on the distributor drive gear)

The space between the back of the water pump, and the thermostat housing is fairly tight, and the vacuum advance unit will hit one or the other when rotated to either extreme. The ideal situation is that when you reinsert the distributor, the engine will be timed with the vacuum advance unit about equi-distant between the water pump and thermostat housing. It is possible to reinsert the distributor off one tooth, in either direction and get the engine close to correct timing, but you'll be right up against one of the two extremes (waterpump or thermostat housing) and not have full latitude in adjustment.
The cam and distributor gears are cut with a helix, because they are at 90 degrees to eachother. Consequently, when you pull up, or push in the distributor, you'll see that the rotor turns. For this reason, you can't set the rotor in the position you want it to be in, but actually have to set in about 15 degrees backwards, so that as it goes into it's final resting spot it will only then be positioned correctly.

All of the above is the simple part. You have the correct tooth alignment, and are slipping the distributor home, when you see that it won't go the last 1/8" to 3/16" (gap between distributor clamping flange and block) That's because the slot in the wobble drive on the bottom of the distributor shaft isn't mating with the tooth on the oil pump shaft. This problem is rectified by eyeballing the relationship of the two, rotating the oil pump shaft and trying again. As James says, you need a long, straight tip screwdriver to reach in and give the tooth atop the oil pump shaft a little rotation. (keeping in mind that the oil pump must also be that few degrees backwards)
This slot interface between distributor shaft and oil pump shaft is on the axial centerline, so it makes no difference to the oil pump whether you get the two to mesh at zero, or 180.

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by TerryS

As James says, you need a long, straight tip screwdriver to reach in and give the tooth atop the oil pump shaft a little rotation. (keeping in mind that the oil pump must also be that few degrees backwards)

Terry. The female part of the connection is on the distributor and not the oil pump. You are therefore better using something like a socket that will fit over the pump shaft to turn it with. Since we a writing a complete novel covering every small aspect, make sure what ever you shove down there is secure. If it falls off or drops off, you will have a bugger of a time recovering it. The manual actually suggests urning over the motor, which would be probably easier than attempting to align the shafts.

The best position for the body will vary from model to model as the brackets etc in that area changed a few times. But as you state, find a position where you can tun the body around a 1/4 of a turn and when you have it fitted with the rotor button lined up correctly that it is roughly halfway within that 1/4 turn area. But even the manual does not state where it should be fitted, it is just a bit of common sense.

But for those that need a step by step instruction, here is the extract from the Landrover workshop manual and not from after market ones that some others like to read.

9. If engine has not been turned while distributor has been removed, proceed as follows (items 10 to 17). Alternatively proceed to instruction 18.
10. Fit new ‘0’ ring seal to distributor housing.
11. Turn distributor drive until centre line of rotor arm is 30” counter- clockwise from mark made on top edge of distributor body.
12. Fit distributor in accordance with alignment markings.
NOTE: It may be necessary to align oil pump drive shaft to enable distributor drive shaft to engage in slot.
13. Fit clamp and bolt. Secure distributor in exact original position.
14. Connect vacuum hose to distributor and low tension lead to coil.
15. Fit distributor cap.
16. Reconnect battery.
17. Using suitable electronic equipment, set the ignition timing, see IGNITION TIMING-Adjust.
18. If, with distributor removed, engine has been turned it will be necessary to carry out the following procedure.
19. Set engine-No. 1 piston to static ignition timing figure (see Engine Tuning Data- Section 05) on compression stroke.
20. Turn distributor drive until rotor arm is approximately 30 degrees counter-clockwise from number one sparking plug lead position on cap.
21. Fit distributor to engine.
22. Check that centre line of rotor arm is now in line with number one sparking plug lead on cap. Reposition distributor if necessary.
23. If distributor does not seat correctly in front cover, oil pump drive is not engaged. Engage by lightly pressing down distributor while turning engine.
24. Fit clamp and bolt leaving both loose at this stage.

[TerryS]

Yes, Ian, I am aware that the female portion of the interface is on the distributor and not the oil pump shaft. Read, in my last paragraph where I said 'slot on wobble piece' and 'tooth on oil pump shaft'

You made an assumption that I said otherwise because I said to use a straight tipped screwdriver (assume the tip of the screw driver was meant to fit into some slot on the oil pump shaft). Perhaps, for clarity, I could have said that the screwdriver tip was to be placed along side the TOOTH on the oil pump shaft. I use a tool, made from a wobble piece attached to a shaft (which I use for spinning the oil pump for priming too) as does James, if I remember him saying so. I don't expect the average guy to have one, only going into this bit out of an infrequent necessity.

What may have confused you to think I was saying the female slot was on the oil pump shaft was where I refered to OTHER engines where the oil pump is directly driven from the cam.
No offense taken.

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by TerryS

Yes, Ian, I am aware that the female portion of the interface is on the distributor and not the oil pump shaft. Read, in my last paragraph where I said 'slot on wobble piece' and 'tooth on oil pump shaft'

You made an assumption that I said otherwise because I said to use a straight tipped screwdriver (assume the tip of the screw driver was meant to fit into some slot on the oil pump shaft). Perhaps, for clarity, I could have said that the screwdriver tip was to be placed along side the TOOTH on the oil pump shaft. I use a tool, made from a wobble piece attached to a shaft (which I use for spinning the oil pump for priming too) as does James, if I remember him saying so. I don't expect the average guy to have one, only going into this bit out of an infrequent necessity.

What may have confused you to think I was saying the female slot was on the oil pump shaft was where I refered to OTHER engines where the oil pump is directly driven from the cam.
No offense taken.

Wasn't having a go at you. The end of the oil pump shaft is shaped like the end of a flat screw driver. It is also a reasonable distance down inside the timing cover. So to turn it with a screw driver is very awkward.

I had assumed wrong that you must have thought there was a slot or something for the end of the screw driver to go into so you could use it to turn the pump shaft

[TerryS]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

So to turn it with a screw driver is very awkward.

No argument there. It certainly is. but, for the average joe, who isn't doing this task often, if even twice, the long shank screwdriver may be the only tool in the toolchest that will get in there, reach down that far, and still allow you to look down while you're working to see the 'area of interest'
I suppose one could take a piece of round stock and grind a quick slot with the air cutoff.

[bartell]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

So to turn it with a screw driver is very awkward.

Really?!! I guess you have never tried it then.

However, at least we have you to the point where you have stopped throwing abuse and listening. I consider that great progress! It will save others (and yourself) much grief.

Everyone makes mistakes or omissions P76rangie. Don't become uncontrollably enraged when people try to smooth yours over.

James (who prefers the collegiate approach)

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by TerryS

No argument there. It certainly is. but, for the average joe, who isn't doing this task often, if even twice, the long shank screwdriver may be the only tool in the toolchest that will get in there, reach down that far, and still allow you to look down while you're working to see the 'area of interest'
I suppose one could take a piece of round stock and grind a quick slot with the air cutoff.

Most people have a socket set with an extension bar. I just can't remember the socket size.

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by bartell

Really?!! I guess you have never tried it then.

However, at least we have you to the point where you have stopped throwing abuse and listening. I consider that great progress! It will save others (and yourself) much grief.

Everyone makes mistakes or omissions P76rangie. Don't become uncontrollably enraged when people try to smooth yours over.

James (who prefers the collegiate approach)

You idiot!
I listen to anyone that appears to know what they are talking about. Maybe you should do the same. That's right you listen to what others have done and claim it as your own experience. Maybe you should just take more time to work out who knows what they are talking about before using their views or maybe attempting to understand what those views are first.

Did you even go to college.

[bartell]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

You idiot!

Yes dear.

James (who must be the only one still reading p76rangie)

[yieldsign2]

Not to bring this fray back up, but I am putting my distributor in, and as the manual states to install it so that the rotor points to the cyl 1 lead on teh cap. Well, it seems like I can get it to point closer to either 2 or 7 but not terribly close to 1 no matter what I try... any ideas as to what I'm doing wrong? It should be dead on number one right?