power window electrical issue

[hermanpj]

I broke this topic out of my 'interior re-do' thread, so please excuse the duplication. Having a hard time tracking down this gremlin.

Symptoms:
-Front windows do not operate.
-I have the illuminated window switches, and the front window switches do not light up.
-Rear windoes do operate, however they only operate from the center console switches. These switches are properly illuminated.
-Rear windows do not operated from rear door switches. The rear door switches do not illuminate
-All other door functions work: puddle lamps, edge lamps, door locks

Troubleshooting so far:
- I have ruled out the illuminated switches as problem occurs when I substitute back in my original rover switches.
- I suspected the ground wire bundle in the cubby box, however i removed the ground wire and the rear windows stopped working from the center console switches, they resumed working when i reconnected the ground wire.
- I have checked all the wiring connectors are connected to right switches.
- I have removed relays individually. rear windows predictably stopped working when rear window relay removed. front relay 'looks' fine, no obvious issues like corrosion
- I took the rear door panels off to verify the switches are connected to the wirining harness and the harness connector inside each rear door is connected to the harness of the doors themselves.
-All fuses are verified good: C2, C8 and B1.

Theories
-the relays
-a short somewhere, although its hard to account for the front windows and rear windows acting up, nor for why the rear windows do work from the center console switches.

[BullDogSix]

"Front windows do not operate."

"I have the illuminated window switches, and the front window switches do not light up."

"Rear windows do not operated from rear door switches. The rear door switches do not illuminate"

Sounds like you are not getting power to those switches...but the motors will operate with the console switches...hmmm.

-If you activate the console switches, do the door switches work? (hold the console switch down and try the door switch). If so then you have "switched" console power going to your door switches.

-Have you checked if you have power into the door switches and motors with a meter?

-Try jumping a known operable 12v source right to the motor and switches to see if they work.

[hermanpj]

Cool - thanks for the tips - so let me make sure i got it.

Test 1: While activating the console switch for rear windows see if a rear window switch in the door will illuminate or has any effect on the window motor

Test 2: Jumper from say a front door puddle lamp to the front door motor wiring to see if the motor itself will work if it directly receives power.

[BullDogSix]

You got it

You can jump power to a door switch too. (Ex: If motor works with jumper and if the switch illuminates with jumper, but will not activate the motor then its internal in the switch or the wiring from switch to motor)

Basically you want to start eliminating parts and pieces from the "unknown". If the motors and switches check out, then get your meter out and start checking continuity on wire runs.

[hermanpj]

thanks man. ignoring the rear doors for a minute and just thinking about the front ones, since there are connectors from the main harness to the front door harnesses behind the driver and front passenger kick panels, and since everthing on each front door except the windows works... I'd tend to say its not likely to be the main harness to door harness connectors.

if i had to form a theory i'd guess its something
--between the console switches and the motors that comes before the connectors for the door harnesses, which would point to a relay or to individual wires inthe harness that are for the doors.

if i had to have a single theory that explains all symptons on all doors, and this will sound overly simplistic, but it would be some component or wiring which connects to the front window switches AND the switches in the rear doors. Besides ground wire bundle inthe cubby box i cant think of what.

[BullDogSix]

Don't you just love electrical "gremlins" Can you imagine the $$ you'd have to drop at a dealer or shop to solve this...And believe me they are doing just about the same thing as you.

Do you have a multi meter?...if not get yourself over to a Sears/Walmart/Lowes/Homedepot...and get one. Shouldn't cost more than $30 bucks for a nice digital one. Best money you'll spend when chasing electrical problems.

Like I said before, just start eliminating the good, working parts from the unknown, bad and you'll narrow it down to those 2 or 3 areas...then concentrate on those.

good luck

[hermanpj]

thanks man. i'm sure i'll have questions.

[BullDogSix]

Hey Herman,

I have done a little digging around the net and it looks like mabey you have a bad connection internally in the "Window ECU". Go to discoweb.org --, pick the "tech" header, then pick the "rear electric window" on the left side bar. Hope this helps.

[hermanpj]

does a 1991 Classic have a window ECU? i know it has a one touch up down controller for the driver door, but i checked out the wiring diagram and now power window ECU is mentioned. :-)

[BullDogSix]

Oops...my bad...thought you had a 95. Dang it..thought I was onto something there...the search continues......

[hermanpj]

no worries - just making sure I wasnt missing something!