A vac gauge and compression tester will be going along. For the sake of diagnostics I'm willing to believe them that the vac is low. They say it needs a new set of injectors and a cam replaced. The cam only has 15k and ran fine for a few months before the problems set in. I think we can both agree if with the decline of ZDPP that a cam shouldn't fail in that time frame. But if you have ideas I would like to hear them
Cam could fail if not ran in properly, but I was more leaning towards the cam timing being out. That is, fitted wrong, slipped a tooth on the chain, etc.
Even with wrong injectors, the O2 sensor should simply tell the ECU to leave them open longer to get the fuel levels back up.
I am not sure from the post as to what problems he is left with. Did the new injectors fix the bucking and not starting problem?
Is the only problem that he has left is with it overheating? If so, what does this mean?
There is also a big difference between low vacuum and low compression.
Faulty alternators have also been known to fry every electronic component with high voltage. I know that they have replaced various electronic components, one at a time, but a faulty alternator can fry multiple units and switching one at a time might not find it.
I am not sure when he states that they replaced the fuel sender whether they replaced the O2 sensor, but if you have a spare one, I would take it.
Take a torque wrench as well. As the cam has been replaced, it means that the intake manifold has been off. If not fitted properly, they can settle over time and actually become loose. This would cause a vacuum leak (low vacuum) and a number of other issues. So you could check the torque settings on the intake manifold.
Trying to work out what is wrong with a car over the internet is impossible. I can only give you ideas based on the information provided.
i think will have a better understanding of things once we do some tests. Elemental if you dont mind i might give you a call as we test it for some input from you.
Shoot no I dont mind call away. Still have my Number?
For whats its worth, Here is my drivabilty diag proceedure.
First, I confirm the firing order before even starting the car, also visually look at the air fitler and plumbing.
If they check out, I hook up a vaccum gauge,fuel pressure and a Timing light.
Start the car and get it to operating temperature.
Use the timing light and confirm engien timing at Idle, and rev up to about 3,000 making sure the timing advances, and goes back when it goes to idle.
If it does... Great, Timing test. 1 down 5 to go.
Using the vaccum gauge, Give it a couple of snap throttle actions, and hold it at 3,000 and observe the gauge. Have the printed link I sent about vacuum gage readings handy. If I see what I should. Bam, Great. Air Test done 2 down 3 to go.
Check your fuel pressure guage while running, make sure it is in spec.. Runnuing at idle and during a throttle snap test.
Shut the engine down and pull out the plugs, I like all at once, but to each their own. One at a time is ok.
Check the plugs. If they are not OE for that brand of engine, get a set of the OE ones. If they are Worn, get a set of OE plugs.
With the wire off, hook up your fake spark plug you can observe the spark qaulity while cranking. Screw in yoru compression Gauge.
Ask a assistant to crank the engine, while you observe spark qaulity. If its fat and blue...Spark is good. 3 tests done, 2 to go.
Check the compression gauge after cranking. Write down the number. Install old/Replacement spark plug. Repeat for all cylinders.
Compare all compression numbers. The actual number isnt as importmant as the spread. The lowest and the highest number should not be over 10% difference. If that ok. Great Compression down. 4 out of 5 done.
Finally, turn the car to II, so the fuel engages (II is when all the dash bulbs illuminate, but the engine is not running)
Oberserve the fuel pressure gauge for bleeddown.
Finally, all 5 tests done.
If you do ALL 5 of these tests, in the order I presented, You WILL know what the problem is. It is also, the most time effective way I came up with to perform these tests. It would take me less thena hour to do all of this on ROvers.
I STRONGLY recommend doing all the test for a big picture of what is happening.
Lets adress overheating after these tests. It may be realted, Maybe not... If it even IS overheating. Haas then been verified indepentant of the dash instrument?
Check the compression gauge after cranking. Write down the number. Install old/Replacement spark plug. Repeat for all cylinders.
Please take this as clarification (Not arguing)
The compression test should be done with all spark plugs removed and accelerator flat to the floor. You should try and make sure that it turns over at roughly the same rate for each test. If the battery is starting to die and each check is getting slower, the test will not be worth much.
But the vacuum gauge will give more useful information than a compression test.
It was the "install old/replacement spark plug. Repeat for all cylinders" that I thought may lead to some confusion. It read like you replaced the spark plugs as you completed each cylinder. But as I said, I was just attempting to clarify things.
hmmm did hell freeze over you to agreed on something
I printed your steps and will add it to my Rover hand book that I have been compiling for a few years now. I Will also bring my big battery charger with crank assist or jump pack to make sure we have ample cranking power for each go.
__________________
"Only two defining forces ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American G.I. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom."
here is a tid bit that SY added on Muddy Oval on the for sale thread of Cooking.
"FWIW- those parts replaced weren't replaced 'chasing' the problem- those parts were faulty. The engine runs lean and has low vacuum, although has proper fuel pressure. The ECU is functioning properly. It has an aftermarket cam and aftermarket injectors, neither of which are proper for the engine."
What a fucking hack! If DAP even opened the hood on my Element, it woudl void the Warranty.
Like, 1,000 parts fail all at once. Get fuckign real!
You didnt give them any money for this 'Repair' did you?
Good advice above but my 1st question would be why was the cam replaced in the 1st place?
I'll send him a pm asking this question as it is a good one.
__________________
"Only two defining forces ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American G.I. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom."
Sorry for the slow reply... I will probably post a few comments right now to answer questions.
I should have mentioned that the fuel filter has been replaced? I am 95% sure of this. I think that was the VERY first thing we tried. Wow, it was over 5 months ago now, and I may be remembering that wrong.
And the $600 lasagna is not worth that much, they were just being nice to a guy who is back in school and broke as hell. Don't get me wrong though, it is damn good and I am more than wiling to make a batch for anyone who comes over to help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin88RRC
Army... you're right about somethings not adding up, but until he gets it into his own garage it's hard to guess at it. That being said, my guess is a faulty MAF and a clogged fuel filter.
If my Rover was street legal (expired registration & inspection soon to be fixed), I would be down to VT in a heart beat to lend a hand..... mainly cause I want to try the $600 lasagna!
OK, two things about Paul... First he is real unhappy with me because he wanted to buy my parts truck and drove up from CT and when he got here he said it was a piece of shit. I acted with the best of intentions and knowledge, but he spent a day coming to pick up a truck that when he arrived he thought was a waste of his time. I don't know if he thinks I was acting maliciously or not. I think our conversation ended amicably, but there is the chance he thinks I'm an a*s for having wasted his day.
Secondly, he is the one that put the engine in the Rover to begin with. Some of you may know Bill Falcone? I may be wrong, but since he and Paul are friends maybe there is over lap? Also, there is a landroversonly.com sticker on my truck that Bill put there. Paul seems to know a lot about this truck, and is the one that told me about the engine being the European low compression.
Quote:
Originally Posted by apbtpetey
Army if we can get a look at it and figure it out whats wrong I can give Paul Grant a call for parts. He isn't to far from me and I could pick up the parts from him to save on shipping costs.
One last thing - in limp home mode, does it run better, the same, or worse?
Once it goes into limp home mode it runs like crap untill the truck comes to a complete stop. I do not have to turn it off. Once it has stopped I can continue on my way normally and it runs fine, until I reach a hill or just push it real hard.
Also, it will run WAY high RPMs at random. Like cruising along it will not want to shift.
I want to tell the SNHLR members Army and Great Divide that I am proud of the both of you who stepped up to help this guy out. I do remember him as a charter member of SNHLR. This is proof that Southern New Hampshire Land Rovers has good and caring men in the ranks.
Yep, right there from the beginning, but never made it to that initial meet and greet because the darn truck broke.
Cam could fail if not ran in properly, but I was more leaning towards the cam timing being out. That is, fitted wrong, slipped a tooth on the chain, etc.
This is something that DAP has suggested. That it could have a slipped tooth or the timing could be off.
Quote:
I am not sure from the post as to what problems he is left with. Did the new injectors fix the bucking and not starting problem?
Is the only problem that he has left is with it overheating? If so, what does this mean?
Well, I have not actually run the truck since the new injectors were put in, but I have been told that it runs worse than before. That it barely starts, and then heads towards over heating. It is smelling of gas out the tail pipe and generally is not road safe. So, that is all I know, but I don't know it from experience.
Quote:
There is also a big difference between low vacuum and low compression.
Um, yea, sorry about that everyone. This should be an indicator of how little I know. But, I am willing to learn! Steve did say low VACUUM not compression. I'm a bone head... sorry.
Quote:
Faulty alternators have also been known to fry every electronic component with high voltage. I know that they have replaced various electronic components, one at a time, but a faulty alternator can fry multiple units and switching one at a time might not find it.
The truck does have a new alternator. Of course, perhaps the old one killed everything in the truck. Prior to the problem I was having a weird issue where all the lights in the truck would ever so slightly dim. Like the radio, instrument cluster etc... they would just slightly dim. That problem appeared to go away after the new alternator was installed, but I only drove the truck about 20 miles before it crapped out again.
That being said, Al at DAP swapped in pretty much everything that can be swapped without taking the engine apart with known good parts, and found no change.
Quote:
I am not sure when he states that they replaced the fuel sender whether they replaced the O2 sensor, but if you have a spare one, I would take it.
There has been no mention of an O2 sensor. We replaced the fuel sender because there was gas leaking from the back and something else I can't remember that warranted such a replacement.
I'll send him a pm asking this question as it is a good one.
I have no idea, it was there when I bought it and I think the guy I bought it from thought a Crower cam was a solid upgrade? Honestly, I don't really know what cams do, other than open and close valves? So, why different ones would be better then others is something I am lost on. But I do know I have a parts truck that has a LR cam in it and we could pull that one, but I am under the impression that getting to the cam is hard. Well, hard for me, maybe you guys can do it in your sleep.
Please take this as clarification (Not arguing)
The compression test should be done with all spark plugs removed and accelerator flat to the floor. You should try and make sure that it turns over at roughly the same rate for each test. If the battery is starting to die and each check is getting slower, the test will not be worth much.
But the vacuum gauge will give more useful information than a compression test.
Trust me I know what I am doing Chris I thought I had your number still, but I dont. If you dont mind can you pm it to me.
OK, two things about Paul... First he is real unhappy with me because he wanted to buy my parts truck and drove up from CT and when he got here he said it was a piece of shit. I acted with the best of intentions and knowledge, but he spent a day coming to pick up a truck that when he arrived he thought was a waste of his time. I don't know if he thinks I was acting maliciously or not. I think our conversation ended amicably, but there is the chance he thinks I'm an a*s for having wasted his day.
Secondly, he is the one that put the engine in the Rover to begin with. Some of you may know Bill Falcone? I may be wrong, but since he and Paul are friends maybe there is over lap? Also, there is a landroversonly.com sticker on my truck that Bill put there. Paul seems to know a lot about this truck, and is the one that told me about the engine being the European low compression.
hmmmmmmm, maybe I'll give Paul a call and find out more about what he knows about your rover. I've had nothing but good dealings with Paul. I did bail on buying tires from him once, but I had some family issues to take care of that caused me to bail on him, but otherwise I have found him to know what he's talking about when it comes to rovers. I'll try to give a call within the next few days.
Good deal it would certainly help to find out more about what was done previously it might give us some insight into what's going on now.
__________________
"Only two defining forces ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American G.I. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom."
At least we agree on Otto Engine theory. 
