lol, I'm gathering up my tools now and about to hit the road...
I'll post up with what we figure out.
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"Only two defining forces ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American G.I. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom."
So, there is a leak at the seam of the coolant reservoir tank which causes the truck to loose all its coolant in about a half mile as soon as I push it hard enough to bring the temperature up. This then causes the truck to be unable to cool itself down, which then causes the ECU to send it into limp home mode to prevent it from melting the engine. Bill diagnosed this issue in about um... 5 minutes. So, I do need to get a new reservoir which I have on the parts truck, and - fingers crossed please - I should be good to go.
Now I just need to fix the hole in the drivers side floor board... the rear cross member and well.... so many other things. But, it should run with a new reservoir!!! Thanks a TON to Army Rover!!!
It took about 15 min to diagnose.... I also checked the oil to make sure no coolant was finding it's way there even though from the geyser under the hood I was pretty sure where it went. Also pulled a plug and checked to see if it showed any abnormal signs on it. The motor looked and sounded just fine until it was run long enough to puke the coolant and get hot. It's my un-educated guess this is the source of the running issues.
Cooking it's all good that's what being a Rover owner is all about. Helping each other when our rigs are kicking our asses.
oh and the roof bars are already mounted up on my rover, thanks brother
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"Only two defining forces ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American G.I. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom."
I know... I would have been really bummed to have sold it and then had to go to events with my friend Brandt and look at it running perfectly for the guy who figured out it needed some coolant. Heh.
Anyway, tomorrow or monday I am going to get a replacement reservoir and then - fingers crossed - things will be fine. We can all go out for a nice ride together. I'll bring lasagna.
I'm starting to think you have a lasagna fetish. lol
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"Only two defining forces ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American G.I. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom."
So, I had shown up to offer whatever help I could, and it should be known that while Army was waiting for Cooking's engine to cool, he helped me mount a new bumper and winch on the Disco. What a guy!
No problem brother it's what being a rover owner is all about. Now go get that Disco dirty
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"Only two defining forces ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American G.I. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom."
It never lost coolant until the last time it was driven, at which time the reservoir failed. There's a reason it gets that hot, but fixing the reservoir will enable further testing. It hadn't lost a drop of coolant before then.
The ECU was kicking into limp mode under heavy load and other things- but since the injectors were swapped maybe it won't do that anymore, as not all of the injectors worked. After the newest set of injectors were installed, it got hot on the test drive and blew the reservoir.
You know if I ran a shop I think I might just tell a owner of a vehicle I was working on look your coolant tank split a seam and is pouring out all it's life blood. Either they are incompetent or they are trying to cover up for being incompetent. I wonder which it is...
Edit: For additional info....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve at Muddy Oval
I didn't look a tthe reservoir to determine if it split or if it just vented. Started car, drove a little, got hot, turned it off while it vented antifreeze. That's the first time it ever lost coolant.
Consider that the customer didn't want any more billable hours on the car- to have it further examined would cost something... that's how this car has been from the start, and I didn't bill for the compression tests, fuel delivery tests or any of that.
If there's any other useful information you'd like- I'll give it to you if you ask for it, but my crystal ball is broken so I'm not sure what more information you are looking for. Explain low vacuum relating to coolant loss, please.
So now it just overheated but the tank isn't investigated. So I'm sure that I'm working my way to a ban from the mighty muddy oval...
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"Only two defining forces ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American G.I. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom."
I installed the new reservoir and took the truck on the exact same rout Bill and I went on Saturday. At the same spot the truck over heated and went into limp home mode. Um... I'm at a loss.
spewing coolant out again? or just getting hot Dave.
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"Only two defining forces ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American G.I. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom."
got off the phone with dave about 20 min ago and that is his game plan. He'll be double and triple checking the cooling system tomorrow.
Basically it ran like a champ until romping it going up a steep grade and then it suddenly overheated and went into limp mode ran perfectly up to that point.
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"Only two defining forces ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American G.I. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom."
So, I found an interesting thing when going back to work on the cooling system. I noticed that one of the wires was loose from the distributer. When I looked closer I found that a second one was more then likely not attached as well, and two more that were awfully loose.
So, I found an interesting thing when going back to work on the cooling system. I noticed that one of the wires was loose from the distributer. When I looked closer I found that a second one was more then likely not attached as well, and two more that were awfully loose.
this could be causing the code 25 that you have been getting. I would suggest replacing the wires with new ones as well, or at the very least check the current wires for any damage to them.
I read through the thread about this on muddyoval and they are still trying to say it is because it has the wrong injectors, which from my understanding is wrong information on their part. I wouldn't touch the injectors just yet. Get the wires put in correctly and test drive it. If it is still having issues proceed with more testing before throwing anymore parts into it.
I had this problem on my rangie after I did the head gaskets. I just ran it, got it warm, then added coolant if possible, then romped on it to move the coolant around the engine, it took a couple of tries and bleeding using all the ports, but it is fine now. I would be careful about it getting so hot though, I am not sure my truck has limp home mode, but it doesn't sound good to be getting it to that point.
this could be causing the code 25 that you have been getting. I would suggest replacing the wires with new ones as well, or at the very least check the current wires for any damage to them.
I read through the thread about this on muddyoval and they are still trying to say it is because it has the wrong injectors, which from my understanding is wrong information on their part. I wouldn't touch the injectors just yet. Get the wires put in correctly and test drive it. If it is still having issues proceed with more testing before throwing anymore parts into it.
The wires are brand new on the rover the cap wasn't so I'll venture a guess that the rotor wasn't either. So once he gets them put on all the way that could solve that code 25
It's funny how they are clinging to that low-no vac, injectors and cam like it's holy writ. I wonder if they have banned me yet lmao.
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"Only two defining forces ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American G.I. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom."
Please work with me here as I am just learning all of this, but since the question of vacuum keeps coming up let me shed some light on what I have learned.
Vacuum is important because of the vacuum advance, which is tied directly to an increase in vacuum as RPMs increase. (If this is wrong, please explain why and ignore everything else I am about to write as it is directly tied to this concept.)
I have driven the truck in two situations where I have produced 4500 RPMs at 60 MPH. Both are the result of kicking the truck down, and in both cases the truck drops two gears not just one. So, I put my foot down on the gas and it drops a gear, then I push even harder and it drops another gear. I do not know if the pushing harder is actually helping to kick down further, as the pedal seems to be all the way down at this point, but it seems that it has an effect.
One on a flat stretch of highway which resulted in a smooth running rover that felt the way I think a well built British rust bucket should.
The second was on a very steep hill where in order for me to maintain speed I need to kick it down. It is in this situation where the truck very quickly heats up and goes into limp home mode.(Please know that prior to having to kick the truck down the temperature gauge indicates the truck is running perfectly.) Also, when it does go into limp home mode what I experience is a pronounced decrease in power with my foot to the floor. If I quickly remove my foot and then give it gas again I will get minor backfiring and bucking.
In both cases the speed and RPMs are the same. As it has been explained to me, and as I said above, vacuum is tied to RPMs and as such in these two examples the difference is load.
Will vacuum decrees under load?
Does the truck require more vacuum under heavy load, and if so, how is it produced if vacuum is tied to RPMs?
I have tried my experience in the name of science here folks. If there is something I have left out please ask.
To which I got the reply to switch out the injectors. Which I don't understand. I know I am not the most knowledgable on this subject, but if injectors are not causing a problem at 4500 RPMs at 60 MPH on highway then they are pushing the right amount of fuel. Steve points out that these are "orange" tops anf not "yellow" tops. I am confused by this though because the guy I ordered them from swore up and down they are the injector for the RRC and when they arived Steve said they were not right, so I called the guy back and he stood by his part, so I pulled the trigger and had them put in. Steve says tehy are under rated though, and I do wonder if I have the wrong Ford injector. But, if I do then they should not work ever, right?
Anyway, I replied to the post to swap injectors thus:
Quote:
Kevin, I don't know that the injectors are a known problem. Let me put it this way. The truck when I purchased it had the same injectors in it as the new ones. Ford Motorsport Yellow tops. The truck as of right now runs perfectly with the exception of kicking down at 4500 RPMS at 60 MPH on a steep grade uphill. Now beyond the debate over whether the Ford injectors are a suitable replacement part how can swapping in old unknown injectors from a parts truck help me when I currently have brand new injectors in the engine? If my understanding of injectors is correct, they do one thing and one thing only: inject a specific amount of fuel each time they are told to do so. If these are the wrong injectors - or Ford injectors are an unacceptable alternative replacement part - would they not fail in other areas of performance, not just at 60 MPH @ 4500 RPMs?
To which steve replied
Quote:
An injector that is rated for less flow will lean the engine- a lean engine goes damn hot under load. They are orange, not yellow BTW- according to Ford. They are rated lower flow than the original ones by 7lbs which is significant.
To which I put up two posts...
Quote:
But as I posted above I have two ideal tests that result differently. Both produce high RPM situations, so if the injectors were at fault then I should have experienced over heating at 4500 RPMs at 60 MPH on the highway flat, just as I did at 4500 RPMs at 60 MPH on a steep incline. I know that I am new at this but logic dictates that going through the whole process of replacing the injectors again is not warranted at this point.
1. Injectors are tied to RPM - I did not know that before - and are constant, therefore the "wrong" injectors should produce faults when identical speed and RPM conditions are tested. This has not been the result of my testing.
2. Vacuum is tied to RPM as well - see statement 1.
Now, I went to bleed the cooling system again, just for good measure and noticed that one of the new wires was not actually connected to the distributor. Upon closer inspection I found another that very likely was detached as well. When I pushed them all into place I found two more that were particularly loose. This means at the very least the truck was running down one cylinder, and possibly as much as 4 cylinders were not working, or perhaps were working intermittently. So let me pose this question: could one cylinder not working cause over heating ONLY in situations where the truck is under heavy load while also pushing high RPMs? What about with two cylinders down? Three? Four?
I am searching for the answer but I am reluctant to return to the injector issue as I feel logic points away from that. No one has convinced me otherwise. While it would be nice to have genuine Land Rover injectors to simply say that I should revisit that issue because they are not genuine is not logical. If there is something about the way the truck is running that points to injectors then that I am interested in, but as you have described injectors - and from what I have read - I should experience the same problem in both of my test situations.
and then finaly...
Quote:
Either things get sorted out soon or my honeymoon is off and my fiancee and I have to make alternate plans. (For those of you who are not aware, that is not an analogy. We really are planning on taking the rover on our honeymoon.) I am going to romp hard on the thing because if it can't make it up route 9 to Marlboro Vermont it certainly can not make it through the Rockies, and if it can't do that then it is a worthless piece of crap.
When I bought it worked. Ergo, the injectors are fine, the cam shaft is fine etc... and what I don't understand is the logic of this. I mean .. oh to hell with it, I have wasted enough of everyone's time. I'll either figure this thing out or off to the damn junk yard with the dumb piece of crap. Five months with no answers from anyone other than more fishing expeditions and a lack of money to do real work means this is a dead end. I'll keep tinkering with her until I break her, but I think we are all tired of this thread.
I just can't keep talking about injectors and cams when the truck worked when I bought it. I am trying to be scientific about this as it is the only way that I can address things since I have so little experience.
