Top End Rebuild

[Greg M]

Good for you man. So you are going to have the heads rebuilt right? Onslow is correct, the composite gaskets can lower your compression ratio by .6. Since the compression ratio is only 8.3, this will make a noticeable difference. You really should have the heads decked for this or use steel. You should have the heads rebuilt anyway if you're going to do this right.

Regarding the head bolts, they are not "torque to yeild" so theoretically you don't need to replace them, but given the cost, I would recommend it. You can use regular grade 8 bolts. IIRC, they are 1/2 x 3.5, but take them in and have them matched. Don't torque the lower four bolts on the head, your composite gasket probably doesn't even have the bolt holes, but this is what caused the blown head gasket in the first place. You don't need to replace any other bolts.

Your heads looked liked mine from the pics so I can promise your rocker shaft is going to be full of crap. I had to soak mine in kerosene for a week to loosen it all up, and then poke and pic for hours! The vaseline worked like a charm for me. Just be sure and lube everything with preassembly lube when you put it back together to prevent the metal to metal contact and it will be fine.

Also, did you buy a new cam sprocket? The original is nylon or plastic or some sort of crap. Definetly needs replacing.

[Kevin88RRC]

Originally Posted by choffa@comcast.net

Take a browse through RPI's site. Plenty of good information on the Rover engine:

http://www.rpiv8.com/

For cleaning, especially the tough varnish & hardened sludge, get some paint stripper with methylene chloride (Home Depot). Works great, but use outside & with rubber gloves. Oven cleaner is another good & cheap cleaner for really tough stuff, but be careful on the aluminum, leave it too long & it will etch the surface.

I've spent quite a bit of time on RPi's site. I was hoping to order my parts from them, but the shipping and possible duties made it too crazy.

Thanks for the cleaning tips. With the oil pan off, can I use either on the block and if so, what do I rinse it off with??? Hopefully tomorrow will be a huge cleaning day.

[Kevin88RRC]

Originally Posted by Greg M

Good for you man. So you are going to have the heads rebuilt right? Onslow is correct, the composite gaskets can lower your compression ratio by .6. Since the compression ratio is only 8.3, this will make a noticeable difference. You really should have the heads decked for this or use steel. You should have the heads rebuilt anyway if you're going to do this right.

Regarding the head bolts, they are not "torque to yeild" so theoretically you don't need to replace them, but given the cost, I would recommend it. You can use regular grade 8 bolts. IIRC, they are 1/2 x 3.5, but take them in and have them matched. Don't torque the lower four bolts on the head, your composite gasket probably doesn't even have the bolt holes, but this is what caused the blown head gasket in the first place. You don't need to replace any other bolts.

Your heads looked liked mine from the pics so I can promise your rocker shaft is going to be full of crap. I had to soak mine in kerosene for a week to loosen it all up, and then poke and pic for hours! The vaseline worked like a charm for me. Just be sure and lube everything with preassembly lube when you put it back together to prevent the metal to metal contact and it will be fine.

Also, did you buy a new cam sprocket? The original is nylon or plastic or some sort of crap. Definetly needs replacing.

I actually have some newer rebuilt heads that only take the 10 bolts so the them with composite gaskets should keep the compression the same. And they will be assembled with new bolts. I did get a new steel double roller timing chain set. And the other goodies that came yesterday include new cam, lifters, and pushrods.

Another question, in the top end gasket set there are a lot of pieces I don't know where they should go? A few compression washers, a couple of large O rings and a lot of little ones. hmmmmmmm

[Greg M]

You won't need the vast majority of that crap unless you really, really want to. They are used in the intake manifold. The only thing you would need are the valve stem seals (compression washers), but if you already have rebuilt heads, you won't need that either.

[Kevin88RRC]

Well I'm still at it. Had to go away for work for about 3 weeks. So I just finished taking her apart and will have everthing cleaned by tomorrow. The crankshaft bolt and that damn alternator bolts were complete PITAs. All the other bolts came off without braking or stripping one. She did not seem to dirty inside considering her age. Even the sump did not have much crud. The cam gear had about 10 broken teeth and the chain seemed very loose. The cam looks very tired compared to the new one. All the tappets had to pushed through and out the bottom.

Here's some pics of what came off.

[Kevin88RRC]

Also, which water pump is a better design? Does one circulate the water better? The one on the right is the one that just came off and the left one is another used in good condition.

[p76rangie]

The one on the left is the usual design and would say the better. Never seen one like that on the right.

[choffa@comcast.net]

As said, the left is typical. Backward curved vanes, higher efficiency in most applications. the right has radial vanes, cheaper to manufacture, used in high speed applications (5000 & above) where high pressures are required. In this application, either will be fine, I wuld use the better of the two (bearings, seals).

[Kevin88RRC]

SHE' ALIVE!!!!!!!!
Well mostly! She started right up and sounded great..... but then came the smoke! First from the exhaust and then from the engine bay.
So I shut her down and investigated, but did not see anything. Kind of looked like from the exhaust manifolds which were very hot after 2 minutes of running. Smelled hot but nothing looked like it was burning.
Thinking/hoping it might just be crap burning off from rebuilding I let the smoke clear and tried again. Still smoking, but not as bad.
Is this common???? Could it be crap just burning off?
She ran for only a couple of minutes, but the oil light did not go out so I will re-prime.

HELP!

[choffa@comcast.net]

Wouldn't worry about the smoke, oily hand prints etc. Oil pressure is a worry. How are you priming the pump? Best way is to remove the distributor & drive the pump with a drill. A steel rod with a slot cut in the end to engage with the pump's drive gear. Direction of rotation, bump engine & watch rotration of distributor rotor.

Remove valve cover to watch for flow to rocker shafts. Don't rule out a bad oil pressure switch, but to be safe assume it is working & ensure oil flow.

[Kevin88RRC]

The initial oil prime was the vaseline method. I was going to do the method I read on RPI's site... "The best way to do this is not to worry about starting the engine but to remove the plugs and the coil lead and have a highly charged battery available. The engine (with the distributor fitted) will crank over at a speed that should allow the oil priming to be achieved in seconds (oil Light out and a visual check), and, unless you remove the oil pump again, no further priming should ever be required." I had a hard time fitting the distro and since the timing sounded good I would not like to remove the distro. But if that does not work, I will do the drill method.

And the oil pressure switch is new. The low oil sensor is broke so I jumped it with a piece of wire to complete the circuit.

[Greg M]

Kevin, do yourself a favor and stop relying on the idiot light. Go buy an oil pressure gauge and plumb it into the pump and then you'll know if you truly have pressure or not. Oil pressure gauge - $20 bucks, knowing exactly how much oil pressure you have - priceless. Is the distributor all the way down? This may sound dumb but I did it the first time without noticing and i couldn't figure out why i had no oil pressure. if you packed it correctly (and I'm sure you did), this is the only thing I can think of. Trust me on the gauge.

[Kevin88RRC]

Hey Greg... I've been meaning to ask you if you have the part numbers for the gauges you installed. Do you have them for the oil and water temp?

The distributor feels like it is all the way down, but I'm going to double check. And after thinking about it, I'm going to prime it with the drill so there are not parts moving around without oil.

[Greg M]

I just used a aftermarket gauge from Autzone. Any aftermarket guage will work as they are all similiar in size. Yes, I have them for both. Go to my thread titled "a real temp gauge" for installation ideas.

[Kevin88RRC]

For real this time..... SHE'S ALIVE!!!

Got her started after priming the oil (used the drill method & RPi's method). Ran her in for 20 minutes while I sat as the smoke went away. She sure did smell hot, but the temp stayed just before half way. She sounds awesome without any unwanted noises. Shut her down and check for leaks. No major leaks were found. Oil pump looked a little wet.

And then... I started her up again and DROVE her for the first time in over a month!!!!


She idles a bit rough. She kind of hunts for a good idle. A couple stalls but starts right back up. The EFI light did come on during the run in but after resetting it has not come on again. Still got to adjust the timing. One more thing to learn. I did hope for more power which hopefully be there when I get her all dialed in. The temp stayed right where it should. But I think there might be a vaccuum leak cause the brakes are not as good as they were.

BIG THANKS AGAIN TO EVERYONE who helped with all my questions and problems. I'm shocked that I actually did this. My biggest project prior to this was changing oil and brake pads I had a few minor set backs, but nothing I could not work through with y'alls help, patience, and time (it's nice to be self-employed which I have to get back to now that this is done for now).

And the most amazing thing..... My wife did not nag once!!!!!!! She's so rocks!