Brake problem (Bleed them?) - Land Rovers Only

Shaymer · 04-27-2008, 06:18 PM

So I just drove my 96 Disco 250 miles home on a maiden voyage and another 100 around town the last few days and the brakes seemed fine.

Was coming home from work and they got REALLY soft and needed to pump them a few times to get them to work... Seemed like a typical sign that the brakes needed to be bled.

But is this common, for the brakes to work fine, then out of nowhere, get soft, or is this a symptom of a larger issue.

Oh, I kind of, sort of, might have used clutch fluid instead of brake fluid to top of the reservoir by mistake when I first got the vehicle.

Didn't dawn on me til yesterday that I put clutch fluid instead of brake fluid into my survival bag. When I emptied it to put everything back in my garage, I noticed the blunder. Dumbest move in a while.

ArmyRover · 04-27-2008, 06:54 PM

I would bleed them and flush the whole system I don't know what kind of seal damage that might have happened by using the wrong fluid.

discowilson · 04-27-2008, 08:32 PM

how do you get the brake caliper off? im trying to do my brakes ha

pavel · 04-27-2008, 09:55 PM

Shaymer: I have never heard of "clutch fluid". For the last 40+ years I've always used brake fluid in hydraulic clutch systems. The Disco requires Dot 4 fluid but I somehow doubt your clutch fluid would have damaged the system so quickly....
Have you checked the obvious things:
1 Brake fluid level (if low, fill and bleed until all the old fluid is replaced)
2 Power brake booster vacuum hoses (they crack)
3 brake line leaks somewhere (careful visual inspection everywhere)

Cheers and good luck

ArmyRover · 04-28-2008, 06:15 AM

I had to think about that as well but, having been so long since I had anything with a hydraulic clutch. I seem to remember it was just dot 3 brake fluid for the clutch in most systems.

Phototone · 04-28-2008, 06:39 AM

On automobiles with hydraulic clutches, the "clutch fluid" is the same as the brake fluid for the vehicle. In the case of LR vehicles, that would be DOT-4. Do not use DOT-3 brake fluid, as this will rot the seals. All British vehicles have used DOT-4 except Rolls Royce/Bentley which use a totally different braking system and have their own special fluid.

ArmyRover · 04-28-2008, 07:24 AM

I wasn't refering to Land Rovers I was refering to past experience with hydraulic clutches which is mostly 60's american makes.

Shaymer · 04-28-2008, 03:43 PM

Yeah, my 88 toyota pickup had a hydrolic clutch... and you can buy fluid for it.... which, to my dismay, comes in a bottle the same exact size, color, and shape as brake fluid.

As far as my vehicle... 2 shops said I had a blown, or leaking, master cylinder. Question: Would a leaking master cylinder cause the brakes to go "Soft"... I've got to pump them a few times to get er' flowing, which made me think my brakes needed to be bled.

Replacing the master cylinder is pretty straight forward, right? Anything I should watch out for.... ?

Thanks so much for your brains andwhat not!

ArmyRover · 04-28-2008, 05:39 PM

actually a leaking seal in the master cylinder can do exactly that. By pumping it your building the pressure back up in the system. So if bleeding the brakes and flushing the fluid doesn't work that's probably the culprit.

Make sure you flush the system completely though.

Shaymer · 04-28-2008, 08:59 PM

Thanks... When I install the master cylinder and bleed my brakes, whats the easiest / best way to go about it?

What wheel should I start with, do next, do 3rd, last?

Thanks guys!

ArmyRover · 04-29-2008, 06:22 AM

Elemental will probably chime in here with the proper procedures and any potential pitfalls for you. He/She is pretty smart lol.

dsfloyd · 04-29-2008, 09:33 AM

If your replacing the master cylinder that needs to be bled first. Followed by the wheel furthest away, then work your way back to the master cylinder. Once there is no more air at a wheel cylinder move on to the next. Works best with two people (one to pump, and one at the wheel cylinder/line at the master). Plenty of directions on bleeding the brakes, by just doing an internet search. There are also vacuum bleeders for a one man job, but I haven't ever used one.

ArmyRover · 04-29-2008, 09:43 AM

I have a vaccum bleeder set up it's awesome there's no other way to do it

Shaymer · 05-07-2008, 05:21 PM

Thanks. Threw a new thread up for bleeding master cylinder.

Thanks all
Shamus

04-27-2008, 06:18 PM	#1 (permalink)
Shaymer Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Connecticut Posts: 25 Gallery: 0	Brake problem (Bleed them?) So I just drove my 96 Disco 250 miles home on a maiden voyage and another 100 around town the last few days and the brakes seemed fine. Was coming home from work and they got REALLY soft and needed to pump them a few times to get them to work... Seemed like a typical sign that the brakes needed to be bled. But is this common, for the brakes to work fine, then out of nowhere, get soft, or is this a symptom of a larger issue. Oh, I kind of, sort of, might have used clutch fluid instead of brake fluid to top of the reservoir by mistake when I first got the vehicle. Didn't dawn on me til yesterday that I put clutch fluid instead of brake fluid into my survival bag. When I emptied it to put everything back in my garage, I noticed the blunder. Dumbest move in a while.

04-27-2008, 06:54 PM	#2 (permalink)
ArmyRover Rebuilding Rover Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: NH Posts: 1,730 Gallery: 0	I would bleed them and flush the whole system I don't know what kind of seal damage that might have happened by using the wrong fluid. __________________ "Only two defining forces ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American G.I. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom." http://snhlr.org/ 91 Range Rover Classic 90 RRC Parts truck 94 Saab gas mileage beater

04-27-2008, 08:32 PM	#3 (permalink)
discowilson Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 33 Gallery: 0	how do you get the brake caliper off? im trying to do my brakes ha __________________ 1996 D1 SE7

04-27-2008, 09:55 PM	#4 (permalink)
pavel Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 420 Gallery: 0	Shaymer: I have never heard of "clutch fluid". For the last 40+ years I've always used brake fluid in hydraulic clutch systems. The Disco requires Dot 4 fluid but I somehow doubt your clutch fluid would have damaged the system so quickly.... Have you checked the obvious things: 1 Brake fluid level (if low, fill and bleed until all the old fluid is replaced) 2 Power brake booster vacuum hoses (they crack) 3 brake line leaks somewhere (careful visual inspection everywhere) Cheers and good luck __________________ --------------------- Visit my j**p website

04-28-2008, 06:15 AM	#5 (permalink)
ArmyRover Rebuilding Rover Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: NH Posts: 1,730 Gallery: 0	I had to think about that as well but, having been so long since I had anything with a hydraulic clutch. I seem to remember it was just dot 3 brake fluid for the clutch in most systems. __________________ "Only two defining forces ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American G.I. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom." http://snhlr.org/ 91 Range Rover Classic 90 RRC Parts truck 94 Saab gas mileage beater

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04-28-2008, 06:39 AM	#6 (permalink)
Phototone Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Van Buren, Arkansas Posts: 34 Gallery: 0	On automobiles with hydraulic clutches, the "clutch fluid" is the same as the brake fluid for the vehicle. In the case of LR vehicles, that would be DOT-4. Do not use DOT-3 brake fluid, as this will rot the seals. All British vehicles have used DOT-4 except Rolls Royce/Bentley which use a totally different braking system and have their own special fluid.

04-28-2008, 07:24 AM	#7 (permalink)
ArmyRover Rebuilding Rover Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: NH Posts: 1,730 Gallery: 0	I wasn't refering to Land Rovers I was refering to past experience with hydraulic clutches which is mostly 60's american makes. __________________ "Only two defining forces ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American G.I. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom." http://snhlr.org/ 91 Range Rover Classic 90 RRC Parts truck 94 Saab gas mileage beater

04-28-2008, 03:43 PM	#8 (permalink)
Shaymer Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Connecticut Posts: 25 Gallery: 0	Yeah, my 88 toyota pickup had a hydrolic clutch... and you can buy fluid for it.... which, to my dismay, comes in a bottle the same exact size, color, and shape as brake fluid. As far as my vehicle... 2 shops said I had a blown, or leaking, master cylinder. Question: Would a leaking master cylinder cause the brakes to go "Soft"... I've got to pump them a few times to get er' flowing, which made me think my brakes needed to be bled. Replacing the master cylinder is pretty straight forward, right? Anything I should watch out for.... ? Thanks so much for your brains andwhat not!

04-28-2008, 05:39 PM	#9 (permalink)
ArmyRover Rebuilding Rover Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: NH Posts: 1,730 Gallery: 0	actually a leaking seal in the master cylinder can do exactly that. By pumping it your building the pressure back up in the system. So if bleeding the brakes and flushing the fluid doesn't work that's probably the culprit. Make sure you flush the system completely though. __________________ "Only two defining forces ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American G.I. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom." http://snhlr.org/ 91 Range Rover Classic 90 RRC Parts truck 94 Saab gas mileage beater

04-28-2008, 08:59 PM	#10 (permalink)
Shaymer Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Connecticut Posts: 25 Gallery: 0	Thanks... When I install the master cylinder and bleed my brakes, whats the easiest / best way to go about it? What wheel should I start with, do next, do 3rd, last? Thanks guys!

04-29-2008, 06:22 AM	#11 (permalink)
ArmyRover Rebuilding Rover Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: NH Posts: 1,730 Gallery: 0	Elemental will probably chime in here with the proper procedures and any potential pitfalls for you. He/She is pretty smart lol. __________________ "Only two defining forces ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American G.I. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom." http://snhlr.org/ 91 Range Rover Classic 90 RRC Parts truck 94 Saab gas mileage beater

04-29-2008, 09:33 AM	#12 (permalink)
dsfloyd Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 84 Gallery: 0	If your replacing the master cylinder that needs to be bled first. Followed by the wheel furthest away, then work your way back to the master cylinder. Once there is no more air at a wheel cylinder move on to the next. Works best with two people (one to pump, and one at the wheel cylinder/line at the master). Plenty of directions on bleeding the brakes, by just doing an internet search. There are also vacuum bleeders for a one man job, but I haven't ever used one. __________________ '60 Series II 88 '04 Silverado 2500 4x4 '02 Altima 2.5 (Hurts less at the pump)

04-29-2008, 09:43 AM	#13 (permalink)
ArmyRover Rebuilding Rover Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: NH Posts: 1,730 Gallery: 0	I have a vaccum bleeder set up it's awesome there's no other way to do it __________________ "Only two defining forces ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American G.I. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom." http://snhlr.org/ 91 Range Rover Classic 90 RRC Parts truck 94 Saab gas mileage beater

05-07-2008, 05:21 PM	#14 (permalink)
Shaymer Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Connecticut Posts: 25 Gallery: 0	Thanks. Threw a new thread up for bleeding master cylinder. Thanks all Shamus Last edited by Shaymer : 05-07-2008 at 07:51 PM.

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