Mechanics all the same?

[natvboy]

Excuse me if I sound idiotic -

So some say go only to a LR mechanic. Being that the engine is set up on a Buick platform - could I not use some one that is familiar with buick engines? Or does it even matter as far as the actual work. Seems to me that anyone that can work on a gas engine should be able to work on any gas engine - all kind of the same function no? Also since LR is owned by FORD could I not go to a Ford dealership and get the same service I would at a LR dealership?

[jhmover]

I won't impugne every mechanic that works at a dealership, but they get a lot of them right out of trade school nowadays. While the ones out of tradeschool I'm sure try, they just generally don't have the experience of someone who's been working on Land Rovers for awhile. LRs do have their nuances and someone with experience will generally be able to diagnose a problem quicker and also without replacing 10 different parts before they get it right. Generally their labor rates are lower, too.

As far as it being a Buick engine...yes that's true but about the only similarity is the block. All the ancilliaries, electronics, fuel injection, etc., are all very different from an old 62 Buick V8.

As far as going to the Ford dealer is concerned, Ford owns Land Rover but the Ford dealers don't sell them anyplace in the US as far as I know, unless they put a used one on the lot. If I had the choice of going to a Ford dealer or LR dealer I'd go to the latter. They have familiarity with the product, Ford mechanics won't, not to say you couldn't find one that could work on your Land Rover and might even be familiar with them, the odds are probably against that though.

Generally speaking a car is a car, they all have the same basic stuff and a real mechanic should be able to fix about anything that rolls in. The problem nowadays is finding a real mechanic no matter where you take it. You have to either get lucky, or get some strong referals from their customers about how good they are.

Research is the best way to avoid getting screwed.

[Disco Mike]

Just do a little research and find a small shop that has a good repuation, try them and watch their work.
Mike

[Adam in NYC USA]

Here is my two cents on the topic.

I went to my local LR dealership and was practically raped by them. I went for a gas tank swapout (which should have been done for free) and got a $600 bill for my trouble.

I asked for an estimate for a swapout of four oxygen sensors. They stated, after a week of holding the vehicle, that the entire exhaust system would have to be replaced for a cost of some $4000 (read my prior posts elsewhere).

Still want to go to a Ford dealership?

I now go to a Indy car shop where the mechanic rebuilt a '64 Land Rover and uses it for off-road and snow duty.

The bad news is that he is 55 miles away and every trip I have to leave the truck. A lot of the local folks are selling off their LRs and going for econoboxes like AUDIs. I think eventually he will stop servicing LRs.

Ask around, hunt them down, and watch them work. You will see the difference, in the pride and caliber of the work.

Beware of the shoemakers.

Adam in NYC

[apbtpetey]

Originally Posted by Adam in NYC USA

Here is my two cents on the topic.

I went to my local LR dealership and was practically raped by them. I went for a gas tank swapout (which should have been done for free) and got a $600 bill for my trouble.

I asked for an estimate for a swapout of four oxygen sensors. They stated, after a week of holding the vehicle, that the entire exhaust system would have to be replaced for a cost of some $4000 (read my prior posts elsewhere).

Still want to go to a Ford dealership?

I now go to a Indy car shop where the mechanic rebuilt a '64 Land Rover and uses it for off-road and snow duty.

The bad news is that he is 55 miles away and every trip I have to leave the truck. A lot of the local folks are selling off their LRs and going for econoboxes like AUDIs. I think eventually he will stop servicing LRs.

Ask around, hunt them down, and watch them work. You will see the difference, in the pride and caliber of the work.

Beware of the shoemakers.

Adam in NYC

Adam where is this shop located that you go to? is it north of the city? I do most of my own work, but it would be nice to know of a place that is good with rovers for backup if I am unable to do the work myself

[Adam in NYC USA]

Originally Posted by apbtpetey

Adam where is this shop located that you go to? is it north of the city? I do most of my own work, but it would be nice to know of a place that is good with rovers for backup if I am unable to do the work myself

More like east of the city (St. James, NY next to Smithtown, 55 miles from NYC)

http://www.expeditionimports.org/

I had found him here: http://www.roverhaul.com/suppliers.htm

Adam in NYC

[OkieRover]

Originally Posted by natvboy

Being that the engine is set up on a Buick platform - could I not use some one that is familiar with buick engines?

If they are familiar with this engine the mechanic is probably in his late 60s. Buick stopped using this engine in the 1960s. Rover bought it in the early 70s.

I would go to someone who has at least worked on a Rover before. I took my 93RRC to Cotmann's for a transmission repair involving the torque converter. The shop forman said their was a kid on staff that fancied himself as a Rover mechanic and wanted to do that when he left Cotmanns. From what I was told it took him three tries to get the tranny back in my Rover and installed correctly. He didn't want to be a Rover mechanic any longer.

[Adam in NYC USA]

Originally Posted by natvboy

Excuse me if I sound idiotic -

So some say go only to a LR mechanic. Being that the engine is set up on a Buick platform - could I not use some one that is familiar with buick engines? Or does it even matter as far as the actual work. Seems to me that anyone that can work on a gas engine should be able to work on any gas engine - all kind of the same function no? Also since LR is owned by FORD could I not go to a Ford dealership and get the same service I would at a LR dealership?

The ancentry is from Buick but the designs in the Range Rover and Discovery is uniquely Land Rover.

Remember that aluminium block engines were new technology back then and all the American market was interested in was big-block horsepower.

When you have the chance and look over some of my old posts here, you will see some books about Rover engines and the evolutions that have come from the Buick. It is not a Buick in the nearest sense of the word when you see what TVR and Rover did to the engine block.

Land Rover engines are a unique breed of engine, plenty of torque at low rpm, and with a careful skilled craftsman doing his stuff, pretty amazing things happen to a engine block designed back in the 1960's.

Then you have the interesting things like the special suspension for the articulation, the conservative but hardy transmission that make the Land Rover what it is. Do you want someone with little or no expierence working on your pride and joy?

Ask around and ask for satified clients and you will see. For the time being, I would suggest you hit the books and see whats different about the Land Rover.

[TRAILCHARGER]

Well I am a bit biased, but then again I am a factory trained Rover technician with ten years in the company. I would challenge any of you to tackle some of the work that comes into my facility. I had to laugh when I read the "Seems to me that anyone that can work on a gas engine should be able to work on any gas engine?".
Well maybe back in 1956 this was partially true but not in 2006!!
Specializing in one product is difficult enough. Think about the changes Rover has gone through in the past six years. We went from working on a primitive pushrod v8 to the latest BMW technology and the latest Jaguar technology. Next year we will be getting Volvo technology in the freelander!! All these platforms have nothing in common with one another. Just being able to work as a technician on ONE make requires a lot of training and skill. Automotive technology changes every year and our job changes every year. Would you feel comfortable having your foot doctor work on your heart? They are both doctors correct? They work on only two models (male and female) correct?
As far as the cost of the dealership goes. You are paying for specialists with the best resources available to service your vehicle. Remember that the technicians don't set the price for service and they are also forced to work under the manufacture's bogus warranty times that only benefit the manufacturer. The price you pay is not what the technician gets for pay...period! Try feeding your families with the pay you get from doing a freelander, Range Rover, Discovery engine or transmission and you guys will be eating a can of beans everynight if your lucky. Diagnostic time----Whats that???
Have any of you ever been misdiagnosed by one of your doctors. Have they ever prescribed something that didn't fix your problem. Have you ever analyzed the cost of going to your doctor.Yet you still look at them as gods and hero's. I can tell all of you one thing. The cost of servicing your ever increasingly complicated vehicles is not going to go down in the future. Vehicles are difficult to work on and it is not a field where a person can learn one job and keep up rather easily with changing procedures (i.e. carpenter, electrician, plumber, mason, welder). This is why technicians are leaving the field and putting there skills into other fields which are more profitable and where the models don't change as fast. Maybe they are all becoming doctors?

[buick215]

I quite argree with you,I decided to only work on LR products a few yrs back - best thing I did,and specializing in diagnostic work,(about 70% for other garages)has made life easier and more interesting.I feel sorry for the techs that work in ordinary non-franchised dealers,some are really struggling - esp the older ones.Having to accept what ever make or model car comes through the door is a nightmare,accurate info being one of the biggest headaches.
Yes,it really is a free lunch running a garage !

[Disco 1]

i dont doubt that landrover mechanics know their stuff and know more than i do or most other people but from my experience i have decided to never trust the dealership again. basically my truck died on the interstate, towed it to the dealership. they informed me it would only cost 14,000 to fix my truck. 10,000 for a new block 2,000 core charge since my block was useless since i had snapped a rod and sent it through the block, and 2,000 for labor. hmm well i paid like 8500 a year or two back so i think not. towed it home tore it down myself and i dont need a new block no thrown rods, the heads were warped. hopefully the dealership would have realized that too when they tore it apart and not charged me 14k + more since none of that money would have gone into fixing the problem but ill be ok never finding out.

[p76rangie]

most mechanics these days are simply parts replacers. The skill is in how to replace the part. Most diagnosis is in simply the computer telling you what is wrong. The pity is that it often tells you to replace the wrong part, but you would not tell the customer that they were charged $2,000 to replace a part that was not the fault. There is nothing better to find someone that knows their stuff and will actually work on your vehicle. Not someone that will get into trouble if they spend too much time on your car.

But this is the new world of motorvehicles and you have to get use to it.

[SCSL]

TrailCharger - I completely respect what you are saying and make it a point to rarely join in on the "bash the mech" threads.

But the experiences that many on the board have had with US dealerships cannot be refuted. Perhaps the issue is management? Or strategic direction of the svc departments? Either way the result is the same in the ill-will generated among both enthusiasts and first-time customers. Unfortunately, that ill-will often manifests as rants against the individual mech rather than the company.

This, among other reasons, has prompted more than a few highly skilled & honest LR mechs to open their own specialty shop. And this is a good thing for all involved. A friend of mine who has done this has consistently grown his business year after year as a result of his honesty, the quality of his work, and his enthusiasm.

[300bhp/ton]

Originally Posted by TRAILCHARGER

Well I am a bit biased, but then again I am a factory trained Rover technician with ten years in the company. I would challenge any of you to tackle some of the work that comes into my facility. I had to laugh when I read the "Seems to me that anyone that can work on a gas engine should be able to work on any gas engine?".
Well maybe back in 1956 this was partially true but not in 2006!!
Specializing in one product is difficult enough. Think about the changes Rover has gone through in the past six years. We went from working on a primitive pushrod v8 to the latest BMW technology and the latest Jaguar technology. Next year we will be getting Volvo technology in the freelander!! All these platforms have nothing in common with one another. Just being able to work as a technician on ONE make requires a lot of training and skill. Automotive technology changes every year and our job changes every year. Would you feel comfortable having your foot doctor work on your heart? They are both doctors correct? They work on only two models (male and female) correct?
As far as the cost of the dealership goes. You are paying for specialists with the best resources available to service your vehicle. Remember that the technicians don't set the price for service and they are also forced to work under the manufacture's bogus warranty times that only benefit the manufacturer. The price you pay is not what the technician gets for pay...period! Try feeding your families with the pay you get from doing a freelander, Range Rover, Discovery engine or transmission and you guys will be eating a can of beans everynight if your lucky. Diagnostic time----Whats that???
Have any of you ever been misdiagnosed by one of your doctors. Have they ever prescribed something that didn't fix your problem. Have you ever analyzed the cost of going to your doctor.Yet you still look at them as gods and hero's. I can tell all of you one thing. The cost of servicing your ever increasingly complicated vehicles is not going to go down in the future. Vehicles are difficult to work on and it is not a field where a person can learn one job and keep up rather easily with changing procedures (i.e. carpenter, electrician, plumber, mason, welder). This is why technicians are leaving the field and putting there skills into other fields which are more profitable and where the models don't change as fast. Maybe they are all becoming doctors?

I totally agree with you.

Except for the fact that this is the Series 1 Discovery forum. And in reality the most complex bit of kit on a S1 Discovery is probably the headlights or central locking.

Any competent machanic should be able to cover the basics.

[pavel]

There are other points to be made here....

1 at most dealerships the guy who tells you your towed-in vehicle will cost $14k (or whatever estimate they want) to repair is usually not the mechanic/technician. In my personal experience in Ford, Volvo, GM, LandRover, Nissan & Jeep dealerships he is a "service advisor". Often these guys are glorified salesmen who are playing a game with you...they are trying to get the maximum sum of money out of the customer that is possible. In some auto businesses they get a bonus based on the amount of work they bring in.
Many dealership do not want to do lengthy and difficult repair work and consequently quote enormous estimates just to see if the vehicle owner will pay anything. In both cases that I experienced this type of hyperquotation, my old vehicle would have obviously clogged up the smooth running shop; the so-called "blown engines" were going to cost $1800 and $5000 respectively to fix (neither engine was in fact blown & were fully repaired for $120 and $700 respectively by me)

In EVERY case that I remember, by simply delaying signing the work order, the price came down. In a number of cases, I simply took my vehicle away, phoned the dealer's parts department or local wrecker and got replacement parts at a much lower price. The last time I needed engine parts, the LR Parts Manager ended up offering them to me at a 30% discount (I faxed him a list of what I needed and asked for a competitive quote)

2 Remember, the mechanic/technician is probably only being paid about $30 per hour (plus benefits) but the dealer is charging about $105 these days. Talk to the mechanic himself at coffee break or when he comes off shift - get his direct opinion if he will give it. Make sure the tech knows your face, get the Mrs. to leave him some cookies, he will do a better job if he knows you.

3 Finally, do as much of the routine servicing and little jobs yourself (I just repaired my pranged wipers for free yesterday). That's where this wonderful Forum comes in. With the money you save routinely, you can spend more on the difficult jobs at the dealer or at that trusted Indy shop (ask for your personal mechanic only to work on your Disco) . Always go to a mechanic that has experience with your Disco, a Ford/Volvo/Buick mechanic will know how to change a set of connecting rod big end bearings in any engine but LR electricals are quite different from other vehicles.