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Old 01-20-2013, 05:56 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default oil pump prime (saga continues)

'97 D1. Replaced water pump, front cover gasket, timing chain and gears. Had issues reassembling, removed front cover, and had fractured oil pump gears. Replaced w/ gears from AB, reassembled, no oil pressure. Forced oil into every port, pipe, and hole while turning engine forwards and backwards. No oil pressure. Dismantled and packed pump with vaso. Pulled vacuum at block where front cover interfaces and drew oil (no air leaks). Packed port in block with vaso & reassembled. Still no oil pressure. I can push oil through the system with a syringe, so I know the cooler, filter, etc are not blocked. I have verified there is truly no oil pressure, not just a faulty sender. Trying to force oil back through the pump, front cover, and block down into the sump. Have a feeling the vaso has it clogged up. Even heated up oil today on the grill and forced it through the oil cooler pipe fitting on the bttom of the front cover. No dice. I try turning over with plugs out, etc., and I have also fired it and let it run. Not moving any oil. Even applied compressed air to the system to move some oil throughout the system. When I put a gauge on it, I get a few pounds of pressure, but then it stops. Not sure what to do- had it apart and back together three times now. Know what I would like to do. Let me know your thoughts.
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'97 D1- 2" OME, 235/85 BFG MT's, TMax Winch, Adventure Rack
'94 D90- AA yellow
'91 RRC- Alpine White....sold

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Old 01-21-2013, 05:37 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Checked the pick-up screen lately?
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I've dropped the sump twice to check things out. Removed the pick-up tube and cleaned the screen. Drew vacuum on the block and drew oil to ensure I wasn't sucking air. Also should have mentioned that the oil pressure was fine prior to my "preventive maintenance." Darn the luck! I'm getting pretty decent at fixing one thing, and tearing up three more things in the process.
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'94 D90- AA yellow
'91 RRC- Alpine White....sold
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:26 PM   #4 (permalink)
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When I put the vasoline in there, do I pack it absolutely full, or just lightly? Really thinking I went a little overboard with it. Any thoughts out there?

My other fear is that I did not mark the gears when I originally took everything apart. But many folks says it does not mattter with a gerotor.

Let's hear what you have to say. Tired of dicking with this thing...I have a slave cylinder to replace on old faithful (a Ford), and a D90 to lift (soon to be new trail rig).
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'94 D90- AA yellow
'91 RRC- Alpine White....sold
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:41 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jconverse View Post
I've dropped the sump twice to check things out. Removed the pick-up tube and cleaned the screen. Drew vacuum on the block and drew oil to ensure I wasn't sucking air. Also should have mentioned that the oil pressure was fine prior to my "preventive maintenance." Darn the luck! I'm getting pretty decent at fixing one thing, and tearing up three more things in the process.
If it ain't broke dont fix it.
Why in the hell did you tear apart a perfectly good working engine to replace parts that had nothing wrong with them?

A light coating is all you want, just enough to "catch" the oil and stick to it.
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:17 AM   #6 (permalink)
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You can try straight 50W or gear oil in the pump to prime it. The by-pass might be wide open. You should see a plug blocked port held with a snap ring. Straight through that you'd find the by-pass which is like a stopper held against bore stop with a spring. Check that out if you would, see if it springs back and forth in it's bore. Look in the Rave to see what I'm suggesting.
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Old 01-24-2013, 06:09 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I hear ya Spike, although it was sort of broke. Water pump failing, and a leaky front cover gasket getting worse.

IH, I removed the by-pass valve right off the bat. And then re-verfied that it was not stuck in the open position when I pulled the front cover for the second time.

That makes sense on the vaso. I packed the heck out of it. Did it on the 90 a few years ago, and had to use the drill through the dizzy trick to prime it.

I'm thinking I will drop the oil pan this weekend and pull the pick-up tube. Then I'll draw vacuum on the port and try to pull the vaso out of the pump, and see if I can "reverse prime" it. Not sure if it's possible, but it's worth a try at this point. The other thing I'll do is inject the oil as I have been, and verify if it is going back through the pump and down into the sump, or if the by-pass is allowing it to go to the engine.

Appreciate the feedback guys.
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'97 D1- 2" OME, 235/85 BFG MT's, TMax Winch, Adventure Rack
'94 D90- AA yellow
'91 RRC- Alpine White....sold
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Old 01-24-2013, 06:17 PM   #8 (permalink)
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One question regarding the by-pass valve. In the event that it opens, does oil return to the sump, or just bypass the cooler and filter and go straight to the block?

IH- perhaps I should clarify. I believe the by-pass valve to be working properly. Removed it, and put it back in. Just had to tap it with a screw driver and mallet to remove it - no drilling and tapping. Kind of a paint to get back in with the front cover installed. And when I had the front cover off, I blew into the port and verified that it was not stuck open. So I believe it is good, but can't say for certain.
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'94 D90- AA yellow
'91 RRC- Alpine White....sold
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:48 PM   #9 (permalink)
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As far as I know the by-pass valve skips the oil filter and sends unfiltered oil to the engine.
Please correct me if I'm wrong Doug, the oil goes to the filter, then the cooler, then the engine.
The anti-drainback valve thats built into the oil filter will prevent the system from bleeding down when shut off.
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Old 01-26-2013, 07:19 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Finally! Even an old blind dog finds a bone now and then. She's moving oil. Dropped the sump and pick-up. Had some vaso in the pickup from where I had been spinning it backwards. Gravity fed oil from the top of the cooler and spun the engine backwards until it flowed out of where the pickup attaches. Re-installed the pickup. put the sump back up and filled her up. Fired it up and had pressure after about 5 seconds. Wheelin' next weekend!
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'94 D90- AA yellow
'91 RRC- Alpine White....sold
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:36 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Glad to hear it!!
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:44 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Spoke too soon. Put the fan and shroud back on this morning and went to bleed the cooling system.....and once again no oil pressure. Dropped the sump and the pickup, all is clear. Could see where the vaso has mixed in with the oil. For whatever reason I lost prime overnight.
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'94 D90- AA yellow
'91 RRC- Alpine White....sold
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:40 PM   #13 (permalink)
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How long did you leave it running the first time?
Long enough to get up to temp?
What oil filter are you using?
Cheap or good?
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:39 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I ran for 20 - 30 minutes last night. Fired it up this morning for about 20 seconds and no pressure. Running a fram filter. Spun her backwards again this evening and had the oil flow out of the pickup. Put the sump back up properly, and put some oil in it. I'll back feed the rest, and then change the oil filter. If that doesn't cut it, I'll have to pull the front cover. Can't figure out how it blead down overnight, because nothing in the oil pump seems to seal (it goes around the crank). Let me know your thoughts. Thanks!
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'94 D90- AA yellow
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:23 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Fram has one of the worse anti drain back valves ever.
Before anything else it might be a good idea to just buy a cheap oil filter from NAPA and throw that on.
Rover warns about oil drain back when changing the oil even, they say to leave the old oil filter on until you have refilled the crank with new oil.
I never do, but they say to.
So if you have a weak/bad anti drain back valve on the oil filter...thats where I'd start.
After that I think I'm out of idea's.
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