Pics! - Page 3 - Land Rovers Only

Disco 1 · 10-27-2006, 09:15 AM

yeh its dirt and junk that got in there from the tear down, and i oiled them up since i keep turning it over. i didnt want them to get dry. that doesnt mean i dont know that i didnt blow some rings though. any other good signs of blown rings?

Hank · 10-27-2006, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disco 1

any other good signs of blown rings?

Poor compression.

Just order a bearing and ring kit, and buy a new block from D&D. This is going to be the simplest, most cost effective, solution to this job.

Disco 1 · 10-30-2006, 10:07 PM

here they are, i forgot that when i was at home and could take the pics, i wouldnt have my computer there with me. also, i now know it did not jump timing.

and does anyone have a good source for putting pics on here? it requires a web address so i am uploading them to photo bucket but that reduces the resolution to 800x600.

heads

the scratches on the right side of this pic happened when i was taking it out, they are not deep and will come out at the machine shop

and gaskets

can anyone tell if i blew a head gasket from the pics? if a higher res is needed i can email them or if someone can provide a better way to get them on here that might work. thanks all

Hank · 10-30-2006, 10:21 PM

It's not a head gasket.

Have the heads checked. If they check out ok, it's the block.

01001010 · 10-31-2006, 06:20 AM

So will you be modifying the engine in any way during the rebuild?

Disco Mike · 10-31-2006, 06:42 AM

Posting pictures on here is easy. If you use the quick replay, type in your post, then click on ," GO ADVANCED ", then click on the photo management link and go fot it, just remember to keep your photos size down under 100.
Mke

Disco 1 · 10-31-2006, 03:58 PM

binary: not sure if i will be modifying it any during the rebuild, hank suggested cam and porting, but i dont know of a place that will port cause i havent looked into it yet and i dont know where to get the oversized cam, didnt see them on roverparts.com (not even stock) which is where i was looking for gaskets and hoses and all that other stuff.

hank: i am working out getting the heads checked right now and they should be going to the machine shop soon. can you explain to me what could have happened to the block that is not visible? could the block have warped? before the heads? and without blowing the head gasket? everything looks good, and it turns over smoothly, all pistons move nicely and smoothly. Connecting rods look good and are solid, cylinder walls appear smooth. Crank shaft bearing caps are not discolored so as far as we can tell it did not spin a bearing. Timing appears to be correct. Im new to this and I don’t understand, what could have happened to the block.

Disco Mike · 10-31-2006, 05:45 PM

Disco 1,
If you want information on cams let me know and I'll put you in touch with a great shop that does alot of cam replacements.
Mike

Hank · 10-31-2006, 09:49 PM

So many things could have happened. Telling you what happened over the internet is rather silly. I have a few ideas, but these are nearly educated guesses.

What you could have is a slipped liner. You wont see it everytime. Also, the liner could be cracked and only opens when the motor is hot.

Also, it could be a cracked head.

It's just so hard to say. Hopfully it's just a head problem!!

Cams, timing gears, and general engine perts can be had here www.aluminumv8.com Mark is killer!! Great prices, too!

Disco 1 · 11-01-2006, 03:33 PM

ok well see what the shop says about the heads, and im gunna call D&D to ask how much for the ported heads, and i guess i would swap mine for them if mine are useable. how much more power would you expect to see with the ported heads and the cam. thanks as usual.

Dan Erickson · 11-01-2006, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disco 1

ok well see what the shop says about the heads, and im gunna call D&D to ask how much for the ported heads

Looking to shave a few 10ths off your 1/4 mile time?

I have always heard that the effort and cost of doing that is just not worth it.

Now I'm not saying I have first hand experience with this, but I did look into it when I was building my 4.6. Everyone I talked to (including my local machine shop) said it was not worth it for our application.

Mark at D&D may have some words of wisdom for you on this subject.

The cam I got from D&D seemed to make a difference, but then again, I was going from a 4.0 to a 4.6, and had no way of telling where those power gains were really coming from.

The change to a D&D cam seemed like a no brainer as it was a lot less $ than a new factory one and it certainly was no worse performance wise.

Man that sucks about your motor. Not sure you had to dig in so far without a little more diagnostics first, but since you are in this far anyway, you may as well make the most of it and do the whole job right.

I did not like being without my ride for so long, but I really did enjoy the project and learned a lot along the way.

Mark at D&D will steer you in the right direction and is a really straight up guy. With his advice, the RAVE CD, and a lot of help from the forums (yea got to give a shout out for some of the guys and one girl over on D-Web), I was able to do it and it was my first complete rebuild.

Good luck man and post up when you need to.

Peace,

Dan

Hank · 11-01-2006, 05:47 PM

Porting and a cam such as a 258 or 260 would add somewhere in the neighborhood of 40-60hp.

The Rover heads are junk from the factory. There is a shit ton of meat that can be shaved off! Heads alone would add over 30hp.

I've gat a set of heads I'm going full bore with. Port and Pollish, shaved valve guides, and chevy valve springs. The chevy springs will be much stiffer and more suitable with the 260 cam at higher RPM's. In orer to fit the springs, the spring seats need to be milled aswell.

With keeping the GEM's fuel injection, I'm looking at to run about 250hp in the 4.0

Dan Erickson · 11-01-2006, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank

I've gat a set of heads I'm going full bore with. Port and Pollish, shaved valve guides, and chevy valve springs. The chevy springs will be much stiffer and more suitable with the 260 cam at higher RPM's. In orer to fit the springs, the spring seats need to be milled aswell.

With keeping the GEM's fuel injection, I'm looking at to run about 250hp in the 4.0

Yea, I got the stiffer springs from D&D when I was doing mine. I don't remember having to mill the spring seats though (but then I don't know that they were Chevy). The stiffer springs were meant to prevent valve float up to 6500 RPMs which I could never do anyway.

Man that's Killer that porting made that much difference for you!!!

Not trying to be funny or anything, but how were these performance gains measured? Did you do a before and after dyno on it?

What does shaving the valve guides do?

Peace,

Dan

Hank · 11-02-2006, 06:07 AM

Most of the information was colaberated from Mark and Dan at D&D and the rest is from the local racing shop and personal experence.

Mark claims a little more of a HP gain with the ported heads, and I guess he is the one who would really know as he Dino's the motors. But, I conserve on everything.

I did not know Mark had HD springs. I spoke with him not long ago when we installed his prototype Bosch cam (I think thats the one you got, too), and he did not have anything avaliable at that time. Maybe he found something??? If so, that would sure make it eaiser!

Hank · 11-02-2006, 06:19 AM

Oh, and the valve guides are cut to make a little more room for air and reduce air flow friction. The guides protrude into the intake, disrupting the air.

Many will say by cutting/shaving the valve guides you're doing more harm than good. The guide is there to guide the valve in a controlled manner and reduce the slop...

But, it's a big nuisance in there. Now, you can't cut all of it out. But, you can shave it slightly. And, with the heavier springs, it does not hurt you that much.

It might add 5hp, not much.

10-31-2006, 06:20 AM	#35 (permalink)
01001010 Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Lawrenceville, GA Posts: 4,512 Gallery: 15	So will you be modifying the engine in any way during the rebuild? __________________ JC... 1996 Discovery SE - The Blue Marlin - gone =( 1965 Series IIa 109 RHD Dsl - Wilks www.TerraTrekker.com

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10-27-2006, 09:15 AM	#31 (permalink)
Disco 1 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Starkville MS Posts: 134 Gallery: 0	yeh its dirt and junk that got in there from the tear down, and i oiled them up since i keep turning it over. i didnt want them to get dry. that doesnt mean i dont know that i didnt blow some rings though. any other good signs of blown rings?

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10-30-2006, 10:07 PM	#33 (permalink)
Disco 1 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Starkville MS Posts: 134 Gallery: 0	here they are, i forgot that when i was at home and could take the pics, i wouldnt have my computer there with me. also, i now know it did not jump timing. and does anyone have a good source for putting pics on here? it requires a web address so i am uploading them to photo bucket but that reduces the resolution to 800x600. heads the scratches on the right side of this pic happened when i was taking it out, they are not deep and will come out at the machine shop and gaskets can anyone tell if i blew a head gasket from the pics? if a higher res is needed i can email them or if someone can provide a better way to get them on here that might work. thanks all

10-30-2006, 10:21 PM	#34 (permalink)
Hank Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: VA Posts: 914 Gallery: 0	It's not a head gasket. Have the heads checked. If they check out ok, it's the block.

10-31-2006, 06:42 AM	#36 (permalink)
Disco Mike Moderator Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Parker, Colorado Posts: 5,167 Gallery: 0	Posting pictures on here is easy. If you use the quick replay, type in your post, then click on ," GO ADVANCED ", then click on the photo management link and go fot it, just remember to keep your photos size down under 100. Mke

10-31-2006, 03:58 PM	#37 (permalink)
Disco 1 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Starkville MS Posts: 134 Gallery: 0	binary: not sure if i will be modifying it any during the rebuild, hank suggested cam and porting, but i dont know of a place that will port cause i havent looked into it yet and i dont know where to get the oversized cam, didnt see them on roverparts.com (not even stock) which is where i was looking for gaskets and hoses and all that other stuff. hank: i am working out getting the heads checked right now and they should be going to the machine shop soon. can you explain to me what could have happened to the block that is not visible? could the block have warped? before the heads? and without blowing the head gasket? everything looks good, and it turns over smoothly, all pistons move nicely and smoothly. Connecting rods look good and are solid, cylinder walls appear smooth. Crank shaft bearing caps are not discolored so as far as we can tell it did not spin a bearing. Timing appears to be correct. Im new to this and I don’t understand, what could have happened to the block.

10-31-2006, 05:45 PM	#38 (permalink)
Disco Mike Moderator Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Parker, Colorado Posts: 5,167 Gallery: 0	Disco 1, If you want information on cams let me know and I'll put you in touch with a great shop that does alot of cam replacements. Mike

10-31-2006, 09:49 PM	#39 (permalink)
Hank Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: VA Posts: 914 Gallery: 0	So many things could have happened. Telling you what happened over the internet is rather silly. I have a few ideas, but these are nearly educated guesses. What you could have is a slipped liner. You wont see it everytime. Also, the liner could be cracked and only opens when the motor is hot. Also, it could be a cracked head. It's just so hard to say. Hopfully it's just a head problem!! Cams, timing gears, and general engine perts can be had here www.aluminumv8.com Mark is killer!! Great prices, too!

11-01-2006, 03:33 PM	#40 (permalink)
Disco 1 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Starkville MS Posts: 134 Gallery: 0	ok well see what the shop says about the heads, and im gunna call D&D to ask how much for the ported heads, and i guess i would swap mine for them if mine are useable. how much more power would you expect to see with the ported heads and the cam. thanks as usual.

11-01-2006, 05:47 PM	#42 (permalink)
Hank Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: VA Posts: 914 Gallery: 0	Porting and a cam such as a 258 or 260 would add somewhere in the neighborhood of 40-60hp. The Rover heads are junk from the factory. There is a shit ton of meat that can be shaved off! Heads alone would add over 30hp. I've gat a set of heads I'm going full bore with. Port and Pollish, shaved valve guides, and chevy valve springs. The chevy springs will be much stiffer and more suitable with the 260 cam at higher RPM's. In orer to fit the springs, the spring seats need to be milled aswell. With keeping the GEM's fuel injection, I'm looking at to run about 250hp in the 4.0

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

11-02-2006, 06:07 AM	#44 (permalink)
Hank Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: VA Posts: 914 Gallery: 0	Most of the information was colaberated from Mark and Dan at D&D and the rest is from the local racing shop and personal experence. Mark claims a little more of a HP gain with the ported heads, and I guess he is the one who would really know as he Dino's the motors. But, I conserve on everything. I did not know Mark had HD springs. I spoke with him not long ago when we installed his prototype Bosch cam (I think thats the one you got, too), and he did not have anything avaliable at that time. Maybe he found something??? If so, that would sure make it eaiser!

11-02-2006, 06:19 AM	#45 (permalink)
Hank Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: VA Posts: 914 Gallery: 0	Oh, and the valve guides are cut to make a little more room for air and reduce air flow friction. The guides protrude into the intake, disrupting the air. Many will say by cutting/shaving the valve guides you're doing more harm than good. The guide is there to guide the valve in a controlled manner and reduce the slop... But, it's a big nuisance in there. Now, you can't cut all of it out. But, you can shave it slightly. And, with the heavier springs, it does not hurt you that much. It might add 5hp, not much.