Running/ Compression Test? NOT Running/ HELP? - Land Rover Forums : Land Rover and Range Rover Forum
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post #1 of 132 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 08:32 AM Thread Starter
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Running/ Compression Test? NOT Running/ HELP?

Thanks in advance for any and all help... ( I have read countless threads trying to find my solution )

1997 Discovery SE7 4.0 GEMS W/AES
180,00+ miles, impeccably maintained, AMSOIL since 15,000 comes out still amber after 7,000 miles.....

Was running well, purring like a kitten. However it was getting progressively weaker. I run over-sized tires so gutlessness has been with me for years and years....Anyway, I decided to do a compression test to see if I had a problem. Test was okay (a bit low but generally even) all cylinders were around 110 psi. A wet test showed minimal gains of about 5lbs. but still even.

Recently replaced injectors and put 100s of miles on her after that. New MAF recently. new plugs and wires, fuel pressure @ 38lbs.and stays for hours. Spark is present (each wire checked with timing light).
NO CHECK ENGINE LIGHT!!!

Back in the day with all of these parameters I would chase ignition timing, but that is CPU controlled on this truck.

So, I have spark, fuel, compression, timing and it drove and ran beautifully to where she lies.....took out the plugs and now.... NUTTIN'

I have tried everything I can think of.....

PLEASE, someone come and tell me how dumb I am and that I should plug in some wire or something.....SOMETHING....



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post #2 of 132 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 08:53 AM
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Need a better explanation of what you are doing and what is happening now. Are you saying that the starter will spin but it will not start or what? For example if it quits when hot and will not restart - but restarts easily after it cools down - that is an indication of bad CPS.

So need better explanation.
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post #3 of 132 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 09:32 AM
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I'm not sure if it progressively ran poorly until it got to a no-start condition or not. But my first thought is clogged catalytic convertors. If they're original at 180K/mi, that's alot of use.

I would still plug in and check for codes. I am assuming the CEL is lit at key on/engine off?
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post #4 of 132 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
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It was running like a champ and purring like a kitten....just seemed a bit down on power over the years and I did a curiosity based compression test, wet and dry........

It cranks hard (new Optima) has timed spark as checked by a timing light on each wire and has 38Psi at the fuel rail and the compression is slightly down but even and no significant gain on the wet test.

It seems to have everything an engine needs (the big 4) but is refusing to start



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post #5 of 132 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 11:34 AM
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Are you getting fuel vapor out of the plug holes when you crank it? If the cat's are stuffed and preventing it from starting, I'd imagine the plugs are soaked.

If so, I'd try dropping the y-pipe at the manifolds. Cat's clog progressively. That would explain the slow drop in power over time.

You didn't comment on the CEL.
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post #6 of 132 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 01:09 PM Thread Starter
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No CEL, it was running fine with NO problems,
Cats are okay, recently replaced with used from my parts truck, with no ill effects or changes..


The more i think about it I am suspecting a fuel pulse issue. Is there a way to check the injectors impulse supply? The injectors are brand new replaced just weeks ago...

The injector fuse is okay...( under hood fuse panel, #2 fuse, 15 amp)

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post #7 of 132 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 01:37 PM
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I was asking if your CEL is operating. Is it on when the key is on but the vehicle not running?
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post #8 of 132 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 03:27 PM Thread Starter
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Ct,

Yes CEL on in run position and off while cranking. normal from what I've read.

I just double checked and ALL fuses are good

HOWEVER, Being alone I cannot view the plug ports while cranking, BUTT I placed some cardboard in front of the open (no plugs) plug ports and I would say I am NOT getting fuel delivery....i got a VERY faint pattern, but not enough to run an engine in my humble opinion....I would think the engine would be running full rich on cold start up and the cardboard would be soaked after a ten second run. (???)
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post #9 of 132 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 04:29 PM
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If this were a diesel, I would say you have a clogged fuel filter.
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post #10 of 132 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 04:48 PM
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You're going to need to find someone with a proper scan tool that can look at live data and see what the injectors are doing. Either that or start guessing and throwing parts at it.
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post #11 of 132 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 05:10 PM
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Have you actually tried putting the old plugs back in?
Also on the firewall under the bonnet there is a fuel cut-off switch. It is an electrical switch that is designed to cut the power to the fuel pump in the case of an accident. Working under the bonnet you could have knocked it. Make sure the button under the rubber boot on top is pressed down.
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post #12 of 132 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
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Fuel filter is new and fuel pressure to the rail is 38lbs.

Plugs and coil packs have been swapped numerous times.

Inertia switch is okay, if activated the 4ways would be flashing (ask me how i know that) (c;... ck'ed anyway.


I have a live data scanner Innova 3020 or something but won't give data unless the truck is running, ??? I think ??? I will try it again in the AM already checked for codes...

CPU checks out ...the purge valve cycles and I believe is on the same circuit as the fuel injectors...???? auto electrics is my Achilles heel, for sure.


I am seriously frustrated...LOL..or COL cryin' out loud !

THANKS FOR THE EFFORTS, GUYS, AT LEAST I DON'T FEEL SO ALONE NOW...



,
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post #13 of 132 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OFFROVN View Post
Fuel filter is new and fuel pressure to the rail is 38lbs.

Plugs and coil packs have been swapped numerous times.

Inertia switch is okay, if activated the 4ways would be flashing (ask me how i know that) (c;... ck'ed anyway.


I have a live data scanner Innova 3020 or something but won't give data unless the truck is running, ??? I think ??? I will try it again in the AM already checked for codes...

CPU checks out ...the purge valve cycles and I believe is on the same circuit as the fuel injectors...???? auto electrics is my Achilles heel, for sure.


I am seriously frustrated...LOL..or COL cryin' out loud !

THANKS FOR THE EFFORTS, GUYS, AT LEAST I DON'T FEEL SO ALONE NOW...



,
These things are very difficult to do by yourself.
You should be able to hear the injectors working while you try to start it. But it will require two people, one to turn the key while you listen. The best way to hear them working is to put an screw driver or something on the injector and put the other end to your ear. Even better still, buy a cheap mechanics stethoscope.
At night time, pull one of the spark plug leads and connect it to an old spark plug and earth the spark plug out on top of the motor where you can see it. Being at night it will make it easier to see if it is actually sparking.

The reason I asked about whether you have refitted the old spark plugs is that one of my friends is one of the best Land Rover mechanics here in Australia. A few times he has changed plugs and the car would not run, but if he put the old plugs back in, it would. I don't think he ever actually figured out why this would happen and it only has been a few times over the 1,000's of land rovers he has worked on. It is just a mystery.
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post #14 of 132 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 05:05 AM Thread Starter
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Rangie, thanks.

Yeah, Wifey is away at a conference, VERY hard to do w/o a helper.

I have a stethoscope, but in a pinch a hose works VERY well and the screwdriver trick is super as well.

I have heard AND seen the spark plug phenomenon in action and have addressed it. Like I mentioned the plugs have been in ad out and switched numerous times as the used plugs are still in very good shape, less than 20,000 miles on them.

My issue is now how to rectify the injectors malfunction, a test or something....but the mystery still remains WHY did this start having an issue? Like I mentioned it was running wonderfully and I just did the test for curiosity more than necessity...silly me!

THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE!!!

Oh and the spark plug trick lying on the engine while grounded is a great idea and has been utilized. I also hooked up a timing light to each wire and checked for spark that way...MUCH easier to see from the driver's seat...

.

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post #15 of 132 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 05:15 AM
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My issue is now how to rectify the injectors malfunction, a test or something....

.
Scan tool.

Have you tried starting it with a shot of ether? if it will kick over, and if you can keep it running with intermittent shots, your injectors aren't firing. If that's the case, you either have a wiring problem, an ECU problem or something telling the ECU not to fire the injectors.
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