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Gold Metal Flakes in Oil ..

18K views 58 replies 12 participants last post by  masantschi 
#1 ·
I changed the oil yesterday and again for the second time .. I noticed gold metal sand flakes in my oil ..

I am wondering if this is from the KN Gold oil filter ..

Anyone else experience this ?
 
#3 ·
Whoa. Wait. What ! ? Huh ?

Bearings ??? What are you saying ?
 
#4 ·
I found this write up:

https://landroverforums.com/forum/discovery-ii-18/main-crank-bearing-replacement-write-up-48197/

Is it the main bearings Rod bearings or Oil Bearings ?

I'm hoping it's the oil bearings since another poster said it's easy and all you have to do is drop the oil pan and it cost $100 to fix.

If it's the main bearings it's 10 hours and the engine needs to be dropped?

Here are the photos of what was in the oil:


Ok so I cannot send the photos again. I sent the photos to my email imbeded in the email... and cannot upload them to this website. I should be able to copy paste photos on here and cannot ...
 
#6 ·
Thanks. Here's what was in the oil.
 

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#10 ·
I will drop 10 grand on a Vortec conversion before I install another Land Rover engine ever again. Sand and metal flakes from bearings coming out of the oil should not be happening. I have a snorkel and was off-roading in the desert but the air filter would have blocked any sand. I also checked the air filter and there was only a little bit of sand. Nothing like what came out with the engine oil. So this is either old sludge that came loose with oil flushing or the mechanic sabotaged the engine. It drove off the lot with a cylinder 7 misfire which mysteriously cleared up on it's own. There is no way ZDDP caused this.

The sand was white or grey and the specs are copper or brass.

What type of metal are the cylinders and cylinder walls? If someone put sand in the engine what type of metal would most likely to come out? I am telling you they see dollar signs $$$$ when they see this car is in near mint condition and well cared for with mods. This is why I hate using mechanics. I have too many bad experiences with them. I don't know if this is loose sludge from frequent oil changes - or direct sabotage. Long time ago I watched a Land Rover mechanic mix kitty litter or some type of sand or gravel into coolant and dump it into a new brand Range Rover - to sabotage it for future repairs.

This is the reason why I use these forums - to avoid mechanics as much as possible and buy products. I need to ask for help on the other forum for this nightmare - but Army Rover and his boys club have banned me for no reason.
 
#17 ·
Was not too long ago that you posted about your fan? exploding, damaging oil cooler lines and having to drive It with no oil pressure as I recall.
A very likely cause of bearing damage.

As for what bearings require replacement..... all of them.
You have metal and grit throughout your entire engine.
 
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#19 ·
You have a good memory. Yes the fan exploded and the oil dumped out and I had to drive it maybe 30 seconds after that to get past the curve in a safe place. But there was residual oil and I had used ZDDP that should have allowed it to run a little bit with no oil in it. It runs now after the fact.


Why do you assume "all" the bearings require replacement ? Are all the bearings brass/copper? The stuff that came out was sand + brass/copper not steel.


I don't want to dump thousands into replacing all the bearings if I don't have to.
 
#20 ·
even steel bearings may have been marred, notched, grooved, or flattened by brass shavings circulating in your oil supply

and i wholeheartedly agree that there's only one way that things should be able to get into the engine... oil is only supposed to come out of the drain plug, but that doesn't stop it from seeping out of gaskets, seals, etc... the truck is 20yrs old and i would be less surprised by a crack/fissure in your intake assemblies than i would a saboteur.

you never know tho, stranger stuff has happened
 
#22 ·
Ok so what do I need to do ? And what happens if I don't do it ?
 
#23 ·
you have a few options:

keep up with your 500mi oil changes and keep a close eye on the volume/presence of these flakes hoping they stop appearing

tear everything down and inspect the bearings, but if you take it down that far, you may as well put new bearings in.

have you considered having a professional engine flush performed to really be sure whether you are creating new flakes or just slowly rinsing them out?

if there is an issue and you don't resolve it, nothing good will happen as it progresses...
 
#25 ·
This post has been deleted
 
#27 ·
I'm going to try option #3 .


I've flushed out most of the engine with the constant oil changes using Mobil 1 10W 40. syn - which is very high in detergents. Now I've switched to Mobil 1 15W 50 syn and added 1 small bottle of ZDDP. I have 200 miles on this so far. It sounds fantastic.

I'm going to drive another 100 miles and do another oil change. If anymore flakes come out - I will ship it out to a guy in Los Angeles to tear down. I would prefer to take this to someone locally in Vegas. However there is literally only 2 shops I've found in Vegas with specialist knowledge of older Land Rovers. One shop only works on any Land Rovers pre 1989. They will not touch a Discovery II. That man was very good. All the Rovers in his shop were very old and many had out of state plates. So if people are towing to him you know he is good. I hope he is able to pass on his knowledge expertise. The other shop - IMO- is not to be trusted whatsoever under any circumstances. I would rather pull out my wisdom with pliers than listen to that bossy women on a power trip talk me for 4 more minutes. They will never get my business and I will keep telling over Rover owners about them. Every person I see in Vegas with a Rover.

So if I see flakes next oil change this will be towed to a specialist shop 6 hours away. They charge very high prices. But I feel like that is the only assurance they will do a high quality job and not set me up for future repairs.
 
#28 ·
if you'd like, I can set you up with the guys that I used in california... they did a dynamite job on my disco

fully reman 4.6 engine
fully rebuilt tranny
replace center diff
replace rear diff
new ally rad

only $12k.
 
#29 ·
Thanks but I found an old school British guy out there I'll stick with for now. If I have to replace the engine I'll drop a GM vortec 5.3 in it from that AC Engineer guy or the guy in Ohio that does them. I guess at that point it will cease being a Land Rover and I'll lose allot of $$$$ in the custom parts I bought for it ... but as I understand it .. once it becomes a GM people can actually work on it ...
 
#30 ·
yeah. there's also zombiemotors dot net in oregon... i talked on the phone with the guy, and he does really badass TDi conversions... but i was in a bigger hurry to get my disco on the road and he couldn't accommodate. i'll most likely use him next time around...
 
#31 ·
Bump
 
#32 ·
Just a quick followup on this thread:

After installing glowshift oil pressure and temp guages on the pods pillar my oil pressure and temps are:


Oil Pressure at idle: 20-25 PSI
Oil Pressure at highway: 50 PSI
Oil temp: 120F - 160 F
High oil temp: 180F under load + climbing mountain

For some reason the oil pressure caps off at 50 PSI. Even at 4-5 RPM.


These readings are very good. I am assuming this is good news and means my bearings are good. 250-500 mile oil flushes have been discharging old sludge from the engine. It's possible these flakes were from the previous owner 15+ years ago. I am hoping that is the reason. As for now there is perfect oil pressure. I'm thinking as long as I use thicker oil and pressures stay this good there is no reason for a bearing replacement.
 
#35 ·
I'm thinking as long as I use thicker oil and pressures stay this good there is no reason for a bearing replacement.
This is based on what?
If you had bearing flakes in your oil, that means the material is no longer a part of the bearing(s). This also means that the bearing(s) are no longer the same size/shape as they were. Knowing that then presents the possibility that worn bearings may have excessive play and lead to premature failure of engine internals.
It seems wrecklessly optimistic to assume that a thicker oil has done anything other than make it harder to drain out the flakes.
 
#33 ·
It's that high octane petrol that did it....
 
#36 · (Edited)
In addition to our Land Rovers we have an 08 F250 Diesel (bear with me for a min... it's relevant, I promise). The original engine lasted 174k miles until an injector came apart (of all things) and got eaten by the engine which, needless to say, destroyed everything. $24k and two months later we had a brand new engine from a Canadian engine builder installed. It lasted 648 miles before it made a dramatic exit from this world. Why? One of the mains had a tiny bur on it when they torqued it down. As that bur wore off, the bearing became loose and slipped on the crank which closed off the oil port so no oil reached that bearing. It made one hell of a noise when it happened. It sounded like someone rattling five or six golf balls around in an old gallon coffee tin. Why do I tell this story? Because if your bearings are wearing, one could slip like mine did and then - kablammo - goodbye engine. If you're already seeing gold, it's become a matter of when, not if. No extra viscosity will prevent the eventual failure because the "gold stuff" is not the intended bearing material. It's the material underneath the bearing surface, as you can see in the pic earlier in this thread.

For my pickup, the engine manufacturer was at fault and replaced the engine for free and paid all labor for it. They threw in a new oil cooler as well. The mechanic saved the oil filter from that engine and it looks like a disco ball full of golden flakes. The sucky part was waiting the three months it took to get my truck back on the road. Pretty much ruined my hauling season last year (I pull our camper and boats with this truck). We've got a nice new engine now that's completely bullet proofed. It's been DPF and EGR deleted with a nice tune, a 6" straight pipe exhaust (no muffler), a Banks intercooler, bigger hot and cold intercooler pipes, and bigger turbos. Not having a muffler makes it a little loud until the turbos spool up, but once they make boost they do a good job of quieting it down. It's not a coal-roller by any means, but it really pulls strong. It out-pulls my friend's brand new 6.7L by a lot. We're very happy with how it turned out. Yes, it was a lot of money to spend, but our pickup is pristine so it seemed silly to throw it away. Any newer used low-mileage comparable pickup would have been $30k+. I've included a pic of the truck bringing my Disco home after it started making nasty slipped-liner noises.
91594
 
#40 ·
I’m going to have to look into “oil pan bearings” and how as a Tech I can sabotage them ?
 
#43 ·
“ Oil pan bearings “ get it right Discomania!
 
#45 ·
Ya you may buy some time with thicker oil and frequent changes but the damage is done.
How much time???? No one can say.
Surely not reliable ?
 
#53 ·
What about the fact oil pressure is 24-26 PSI at idle and 50 PSI at speed? If the bearings were failing there would be LESS oil pressure correct? I'm reading that my oil PSI is in the ideal range. 24-26 oil PSI is what these cars got when they were new.

Is it possible .. sludge was loosened with all the oil flushes with bearing material in it from 20 years ago? OR that running it without oil (but with zinc additive) did some bearing damage but not enough to grenade it? I am continuing to do 500 mille Mobil 1 oil changes It's been 4 or 5 in a row and I'm still not seeing any more flakes come out. Engine is purring perfectly.
 
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