Rear Main Seal/ Cross Seals - Land Rover Forums : Land Rover and Range Rover Forum
 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-16-2014, 12:24 PM Thread Starter
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Rear Main Seal/ Cross Seals

I have a disco ii '04. I've replaced the head gasket (that was a big job), and I've done the front main seal. My disco (we call her Gilly) has been marking her territory quite agressively, and it seems to be from the rear main seal. It could be the sump gasket, which I also recently replaced (3 months ago). In many threads, i keep reading about doing the cross seals and not the rear main seal (which does look to be a bitch). But I can't find any reference to cross seals in the RAVE. I don't think the Disco ii has Cross Seals. So I think I need to drop the tranny and dig all the way in. Anyone have any visual tutorial or how-to's Paul's Range Rover one for the Head Gasket was a champ!

Engine Refresh (top end) | PaulP38A.com

In any case, I'm going to try some Blue Devil rear Sealer and see if that fixes the leak.
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-17-2014, 05:08 AM
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The Discovery 2's do have the cross seals - specifically the "seal - main bearing - side crucifix #LUN000010". And you will need 2 of them.

It's the part highlighted in green that I snagged from the MiamiBritish website:



The removal and installation process is found on page 45 of the engine overhaul manual found here:

http://www.landroverresource.com/40_46_V8_overhaul.pdf

I'm in the process of pulling my motor in order to replace both main bearing seals as well as the rear main seal. No, you don't need to pull the motor, but I'm halfway through a HG job and my motor is nearly bare so I thought "what the hell".

Keep in mind the rear main & cross seals on the D2s are about the only things that aren't notorious for leaking. Yes it happens, but it's rare when compared to other problems. If they are leaking, oftentimes it's because the you're either getting some serious blow-by in the valves causing exhaust gases to enter the block and put pressure on the seals, or you have a clogged oil separator/breather system increasing block pressure. It's worth a check before you tear into it.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-17-2014, 05:55 PM
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It also needs rtv. I ended up pulling mine in the middle of a head gasket job too. Was gonna change the cam SITU but the bearings were bad. Might as well get all of it while you're in there. Check out PTSchram. I ended up doing a total rebuilt for around 1400$ with a window regulator, expansion tank, water pump and alternator etc..auto zone had the alternator for 200$ after core. I got a lot of Buick bearings for more than 1/2 the price of land rover stuff. Cam and most everything else from PT... VERY good guy to deal with. The window works now and it runs like a V8, I was surprised in the difference it made there.

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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-18-2014, 06:52 AM
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Technically the manual specs "Hylomar PL32" which is a non-hardening jointing compound (gasket dressing) rather than an RTV. However I agree with DB on this one - RTV is probably better for this application. I think the fact that they used dressing instead is what led to the leaks.

Just be sure to use a very thin bead - you don't want it leaking out or affecting how the mains seal.

Only drawback of the whole project is that the manual states that bearings must be replaced any time they are removed - and to get to the cross seals you do need to pull the bearing. Replacing the bearings is a bear of a job, requiring you to pull the motor, disassemble the bottom end, grind/polish the crank, and install oversize bearings.

Feedback on reusing bearings ranges from "I do it all the time with no problems" to "Don't even think about it." The problem is that after thousands of miles of use, the bearings develop a wear pattern. If you attempt to reinstall them, odds are that you won't get the positions 100% right, which will cause the wear patterns to overlap and accelerate wear.

Take all that with a grain of salt though. The cost for such a job can easily exceed $3000 if done professionally and that just may not make sense financially, leaving you with the option to either let the car keep leaking, or to reuse the bearings anyway and hope for the best.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-20-2014, 02:57 PM Thread Starter
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"The cost for such a job can easily exceed $3000 if done professionally and that just may not make sense financially, leaving you with the option to either let the car keep leaking, or to reuse the bearings anyway and hope for the best."

Aint that always the way with these things. I went in to the local LandRover deal to get the oil pressure tests done (to get the 4 numbers) but the service tech totally tried to talk me out of it. Basically he said, we don't get a lot of people that try to fix these things. Around here, people just drive them until they stop.

Ah, I miss Seattle and it's active DIY LR community.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-20-2014, 03:04 PM Thread Starter
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Bosnian Discovery, thanks for the link, I didn't have this manual yet.
DB, yeah, the tech kept suggesting the only reason he has seen low oil pressure lights come on is a spun cam bearing. Now that took me for a loop. I haven't figure out the cause yet, but I don't think the leak is related to the low oil pressure light: That only happens occasionally when decelerating into idea below 7500 RPM. And some days it just doesn't even come on.

I only have 3 major problems with Gilly: A start replacement (possibly also a flywheel, intermittent grinding noise on start).
The Leak - rear main seal and possibly cross seals,
and this oil pressure light: Slipped Sleeve (doom!) , spun cam bearing (doom again) or something to do with the oil pressure switch.

Then I'm switching to cosmetic stuff like a new head liner etc. Thanks guys.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-20-2014, 03:50 PM Thread Starter
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Bosnian Discovery: I'm a little lost on the steps for replacing the rear main, and the cross seals. Both the Rave and the Engine overhaul manual kind of start with the oil pan dropped I think. (i have an automatic transmission/04 Disco )
Is there anything else I need to do besides dropping the oil pan to get access to the rear main seal on the crankshaft, or to change the cruciform seals? Do I actually need to take the transmission out?
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-22-2014, 04:51 AM
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You'll be able to get to the cruciform seals just by dropping the pan. You'll have access to the rear main. It might be a little tight, but it's doable.

For the rear main seal you'd have to either drop the transmission or pull the motor since you'd have to remove the flywheel and flex plate to get to the seal.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-23-2014, 07:44 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosnian Discovery View Post

For the rear main seal you'd have to either drop the transmission or pull the motor since you'd have to remove the flywheel and flex plate to get to the seal.
Which do you think is easier, pulling the motor or dropping the transmission?
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-05-2015, 09:59 AM Thread Starter
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Solved

It was neither the rear main seal, nor the cross cruciform crucifix seals thankfully. It was the oil cooler plug that sits at the front of the oil pan.

The gasket was worn. I couldn't order a new one because no one can even identify that plug (the dealer didn't know how to order it.) So I repaired the old seal with some gasket glue and the leak has stopped for now!.

So, now just need to solve the low/oil pressure warning light < 750 rpm and also the engine stutter....

They could be related I guess if the cause is a slipping cam bearing.
Thanks everyone for your help.

Ash
|| 2004 Disco II (165k miles named Gilly) ||
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-09-2015, 01:57 PM
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I'm curious how many hours, start to finish, that it should take to replace the rear main seal by an experience tech. Ideas anyone? Thank you.
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-10-2015, 08:27 AM
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If by 'experienced tech' you mean 'professional mechanic doing the job in a well equipped shop' - the book time is right around 8 (7.6) hours. Having done it, that does sound being accurate.

If you mean a DIY job by someone very mechanical, then you'd probably need the better part of a whole weekend to get the job done.

The part is cheap, but the install is labor intensive. You have to drop the crossmembers, exhausts, transmission, and flywheel just to get to the back of the engine. And it's very hard to remove the upper bellhousing bolts without pulling the manifold for access.
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-10-2015, 04:50 PM
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That's about what I figured.

Thank you!
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