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Thread: Easy swivel leak fix? Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
12-12-2018 07:36 AM
redtruck12 This is an OLD D1 topic.
Count the swivel balls on your D2



Total = zero
12-11-2018 08:21 PM
WLADiscoII99 I replaced both hub assemblies thinking it was the cause of the leak when I didn't need to.

Does anyone have a link for the genuine Land Rover Axle Seal ? Also for the boot which is now rotting off from the oil dripping. Is the leak coming from the Swivel ball or the front Diff housing?
08-27-2014 08:14 AM
pavel rovermech,

The seal in our Disco was 18 years old and, compared to the replacement, was no longer soft and compliant when examined. I've found, in general that "rubber" parts on these vehicles (most brit cars?) aren't as long lasting as on our old American vehicles. We have both Ford and Willys jeep vehicles which have original engine and axle seals (even window gaskets) still functional after 50 years.

p76rangie, don't worry, no offense. I have a very very thick hide (being a boarding school product). The "T-handle box end wrench" design looks very useful but I'd like to actually see one in action. Also, the Snap-on prices are too dear for me.

Cheers, Pavel
08-27-2014 07:24 AM
rovermech I have used the same repair that Ian states as well. But What I find is usually there is a reason the seal is leaking in the first place. Rusted or pitted swivels...which will tear the seal up. Also the preload on the swivel itself may need to be re done.
08-26-2014 08:08 AM
p76rangie
Quote:
Originally Posted by pavel View Post
I know what a "ratcheting box wrench" is but what's the "T-handle"?

Cheers, Pavel
You have to remember that PT sells snap-on tools, so this is probably what he is referring to Snap ON Tools 10mm T Handle Ratcheting BOX Wrench RTBM10 | eBay
I have not seen one before, but it looks interesting. You would pull and push on the T handle to work the small ratchet spanner on the end that is on a pin pivot connected to the handle.

But there are also spanners like I posted on the recent thread dealing with the power steering bolt that would get in there as well.

But then again you maybe should have ditched the standard bracket while you had it off so that you can get to it next time. I have brackets that extend the brake lines up so that you can get extra axle travel without stretching the brake lines.

PS. you know I have just been joking with you with most of my comments. I would hate for you to take them seriously
08-26-2014 06:25 AM
pavel
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTSchram View Post
*challenege team changing a CV joint in seven minutes
*11 minutes from driven onto the lift to a fully disassembled hub/swivel assembly.
*had me maintain it for years before they sold it so the fasteners were probably in better condition than most, and I did have all the tools laid out in orderly fashion before beginning
*The t-handle ratcheting box wrench is a huge time saver for removing swivel balls from axle housings.
You are forgetting a few key points:
1 I've never done this procedure before
2 I go into shock when I see British engineering which requires a rest &/or a beer to recover
3 I don't have all the perfect tools at hand
4 I'm old, slow thinking/moving and lazy
5 I clean (paint?) everything as I go which wastes considerable time

I know what a "ratcheting box wrench" is but what's the "T-handle"?

Cheers, Pavel
08-26-2014 04:25 AM
PTSchram
Quote:
Originally Posted by p76rangie View Post
The cold makes you work faster.
Broke a CV up in the snow one time. It took me 1 1/4 hours to replace it in the snow with a spare I carry. I only had engine oil to put back in and I was not 100% sure I got all the broken bits out. So I did it again when I got home in the garage in the warmth with all the correct tools, jacks etc. It took me 3 hours to do the same job in the garage.
After reading about a challenege team changing a CV joint in seven minutes, I once timed myself in disassembling a front hub.

As my wife and I were going to the theatre that evening and the truck was late being delivered, I did this in my bathrobe no less.

11 minutes from driven onto the lift to a fully disassembled hub/swivel assembly.

The young man had grenaded the lower swivel pin bearing.

I will admit that this truck had belonged to a body shop before this young man and had me maintain it for years before they sold it so the fasteners were probably in better condition than most, and I did have all the tools laid out in orderly fashion before beginning, but I was pretty pleased with that pace.

Now that I have the tool truck, I've obtained some tools that have made the job even easier and faster. The t-handle ratcheting box wrench is a huge time saver for removing swivel balls from axle housings.
08-26-2014 04:19 AM
PTSchram
Quote:
Originally Posted by p76rangie View Post
You people want to do it the hard way. There is no need to disassemble the hub at all. Just remove the brake calliper and unbolt the swivel housing from the diff housing. Slide the whole hub assemble out, bringing the axles with it. Then just remove the out seal and fit the new one and slide the whole assembly back in and bolt it up. Takes only about 30 minutes a side.

Cutting seals just defeats the purpose of fitting a new seal.

Finally, Land Rover did not go to grease because it is better than oil, they did it as grease does not leak as easily. Oil is a lot better to use.
Ian-thank you for bringing reason into this equation.

Why folks want to half-ass jobs that if not done right can cost them a broken down truck, more expensive repairs and the risk of failure at the most inopportune time is beyond me!

Cheers Mate!
08-25-2014 10:50 PM
p76rangie
Quote:
Originally Posted by pavel View Post
I hold you Aussies in awe... is it the great tucker and warmth? Up here in Canada, with only rations of aged pemmican and frozen fingers, we'll never match your speed!

Cheers, Pavel.
The cold makes you work faster.
Broke a CV up in the snow one time. It took me 1 1/4 hours to replace it in the snow with a spare I carry. I only had engine oil to put back in and I was not 100% sure I got all the broken bits out. So I did it again when I got home in the garage in the warmth with all the correct tools, jacks etc. It took me 3 hours to do the same job in the garage.
08-25-2014 05:54 PM
pavel I hold you Aussies in awe... is it the great tucker and warmth? Up here in Canada, with only rations of aged pemmican and frozen fingers, we'll never match your speed!

Cheers, Pavel.
08-25-2014 04:22 PM
p76rangie
Quote:
Originally Posted by pavel View Post
Finished the job today - I'd estimate it took me over 6 hours. Of course, I'd probably be a bit faster the next time, but not much (5 hours?).

I'm not counting the time to read the Haynes manual/watch Youtube, jack up the vehicle or to go to the parts house to get grease, Blue Loctite #243, seals, clean up etc.

2 remove caliper/ ABS sensor line and suspend to one side: if you undo the top bolts to the swivel bearing housing to release the brake line bracket - 30 minutes*
3 release the drag link and track rod ball joints from hub (the cotter pins were difficult to pull out - too tight a fit - 30 minutes
5 remove swivel hub (7 bolts) and extract axle assembly - 20 minutes
6 replace swivel ball seal and axle seal (clean all rust from rebate and retaining plate) - 30 minutes
8 reassemble swivel housing into axle housing & reconnect steering (holes for cotter pins are fouled and too small - drill out to 1/8" - 30 minutes
12 re-attach caliper and brake line bracket at top of housing - 20 minutes
13 clean, install wheels and lower the vehicle - 20 minutes
To replace the actual seal would be under 3 hours and quicker next time.
Undoing the brake calliper or installing it should be no more than 10 minutes and only 10 minutes max to undo the ball joints.
08-25-2014 02:47 PM
pavel Out of interest, I called up an "Indie Shop" and two dealerships to get a quote on the work.

Indie shop: for swivel housing seal replacement only - 2 to 4 hours work depending on what they find. $125/hour plus parts, shop supplies (he guessed parts would be $100). So that's $350 - $600 range plus taxes.

Dealership No 1 (known to be expensive): doesn't want the job unless it is a complete R & R job, probably including new brake flex hoses. Both sides including swivels seals, calipers, rotors, pads etc. $2750 minimum + shop supplies, taxes.

Dealership No 2: 2 hours absolute minimum at $117.50/hour (he said to expect much longer) for swivel seal replacement alone if they are replacing calipers, rotors and pads at the same time ($2361.50 + taxes). The swivel work would add whatever parts are necessary, shop supplies. That's probably $350 plus taxes minimum for both swivel seals - he said parts are hard to find in town, they don't carry them in stock any longer. Add the two costs together comes to $2711.50 + taxes.
08-24-2014 09:30 PM
pavel Finished the job today - I'd estimate it took me over 6 hours. Of course, I'd probably be a bit faster the next time, but not much (5 hours?).

I'm not counting the time to read the Haynes manual/watch Youtube, jack up the vehicle or to go to the parts house to get grease, Blue Loctite #243, seals, clean up etc.

1 clean surfaces of dirt - 30 minutes
2 remove caliper/ ABS sensor line and suspend to one side:
if you undo the brake line - 20 minutes; if you undo the top bolts to the swivel bearing housing to release the brake line bracket - 30 minutes*
3 release the drag link and track rod ball joints from hub (the cotter pins were difficult to pull out - too tight a fit - 30 minutes
4 remove the hub for re-greasing of conical bearings/new seal - 15 minutes
5 remove swivel hub (7 bolts) and extract axle assembly - 20 minutes
6 replace swivel ball seal and axle seal (clean all rust from rebate and retaining plate) - 30 minutes
7 clean all threads of old loctite, clean & regrease hub bearings - 60 minutes
8 reassemble swivel housing into axle housing & reconnect steering (holes for cotter pins are fouled and too small - drill out to 1/8" - 30 minutes
9 reassemble hub (remove rust around spindle neck, set end float) - 30 minutes
10 drain old swivel oil over night / fill with new one shot grease - 15 minutes
11 clean & paint (let dry over night) backing plate, attach - 45 minutes
12 re-attach caliper and brake line bracket at top of housing - 20 minutes
13 clean, install wheels and lower the vehicle - 20 minutes
14 Double check all work - 10 minutes
15 bleed brakes if caliper disconnected, clean up

I wonder how much the dealer would charge for this work.. $500 + parts?

* actually took much longer as I had to support the housing by putting wooden blocks under the disc rotor to prevent the housing from moving downward since it has no upper support! Outrageous design to have the brake line bracket held by the swivel bolts. Spent time devising plan to improve design - cut bracket diagonally "next time".
08-20-2014 06:17 PM
ArmyRover I've done the method that Ian outlines a few times and it works fine.
08-19-2014 05:17 PM
pavel There's absolutely no rust on any of the threads but the factory used blue "loc-tite" liberally and so it takes a little time to get each bolt out (right up to the last threads, you can't undo with your fingers).
I'm amazed there are no split lock washers or star washers anywhere... obviously the factory thought thread locker is better.

One more question. Has anyone cut the brake pipe hose bracket that is held in place by the two top swivel bolts? Surely someone has figured out a better design.... it's pretty annoying to have to take the two swivel bolts out to free the calipers!

I figured out that if you turn the swivels to full lock, you can access the "hidden" swivel bolt more easily and got it out. The design is outrageous.

Pavel
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