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I posted this post on a different thread but felt it was an important enough notice to the D2 community on this forum that I should post it as its own thread as well to assure as many people as possible are aware of the possible issues with coil packs sourced from Lucky 8 and their DBAs so that others don't experience the frustration and many lost hour that I have.

I hope that members of this forum agree that vendors and parts they sell need to be identified whenever they are involved in the sale of defective parts, even when such a sale is not malicious or intentional and especially when such defective parts can cause damage to other even more expensive parts, e.g., defective coils causing misfires which in turn can damage catalytic converters, and can only be tested after everything is fully reassembled.

We need to know when there is bad "brown acid" out there (if you don't get the context of that comment, read below).

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Hi all.

First, I want to say how pleased I am with the coil relocation kit I bought from another member on this forum (LR03NJ, aka Gerry). It's where LR should have installed the coil packs in the first place. If you haven’t considered this mod, you really should: it is brilliant and Gerry’s kit is as good as it gets. See below for my install and look up Gerry's posts for all the details.

Now to the reason for this post.

Back in January, while my son was home from winter break, we identified and fixed a vacuum leak at the rear cam valley gasket on my son's '04 D2. While we had the entire manifold (upper and lower) off, my brother suggested that we maybe while we were in so deep on the top end of the engine, that we should also replace the 13 year-old original Bosch coil packs that have been baking all those years in that oven between the engine and the firewall — especially as how hard they are to access otherwise.

This suggestion seemed to make sense to me, so I bought a pair of what turned out to be defective3 coil packs from Lucky 8 (they do business on eBay as LRParts -- but not to be confused with the UK LR Parts).

We did all of this right before my son went back to college, and immediately upon the drive back, my son called me to tell me that the D2 had started to throw misfire codes: cylinders 1,6 (on one pack) and 5 (on the other).

As anyone knows, there is no way to a priori test the coil packs other than installing them and then reinstalling everything else you have to take off to get to them: upper and lower manifold, SAI plumbing, heater hoses, ignition wiring, etc., so you have to start with the assumption that the supplier you got the coil packs is sourcing them from a respected manufacturer, that they have been tested and that they are fully functional and perform to specifications.

My son drove the D2 sparingly during the semester with the misfires, clearing codes only to have them come right back, and when he came home for his summer internship, he left me with the D2 and took my Honda Insight (quite a difference in vehicles, eh).

Well, not believing that what had been brand new coil packs from a vendor with whom I had had great experiences in the past could possibly be bad out of the box, I instead tried everything else: injectors, injector harness, ignition wires (3 sets!), etc. This blind trust was a strategic error on my part and one I want to make sure others don't make.

Having laid on top of the engine for hours on end in 100 degree Texas heat (120 in my un-AC'ed garage) over the past month to change wire sets all those times — not to mention all of the hand and arm skin I sacrificed to to Land Rover gods in the process — I finally “bit the bullet” and bought the coil pack relocation kit sold by Gerry/LR03NJ.

The coil relocation kit came with another set of wires (the 4th set -- from Kingsborne), so after the coil relocation and newest set of wires still failed to fix the misfires, I swapped out the new coils from Lucky 8 with the original 13 year-old Bosch packs that I had fortunately kept (as they weren’t bad per se and hadn't failed, but just 13 years old).

With the coils relocated to the front/side of the engine thanks to Gerry, swapping out the coil packs took me all of 10 minutes, and voila, no more misfires.

I contacted Lucky 8 about a refund or replacement, however they never provided one.

So in the (admittedly mean) spirit that a positive review gets you 2 new customers while a bad review loses you 10 current and potential customers, and to steal that infamous warning immortalized by emcee Chip Monk at Woodstock:

"To get back to the warning that I received. You may take it with however many grains of salt that you wish. That the brown acid (or coil packs from Lucky 8) that is circulating around us isn't too good. It is suggested that you stay away from that. Of course it's your own trip (or potential wasted time installing these coil packs). So be my guest, but please be advised that there is a warning on that one, ok?"
 

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Not to be harsh, but...


You bought the cheapest coils you could get. Lucky 8 isn't a global brand with a decades long reputation. They, in this case, buy cheap coils and resell them. There's a plague of brown-box parts in the industry, mostly coming out of China. AutoZone makes a fortune selling them to the unsuspecting. They sell garbage parts in a pseudo-branded box with a LIFETIME WARRANTY!! which is fantastic if you don't mind breakdowns, being stranded, tow bills and re-doing the job again. And people "assume they are coming from a respected manufacturer". They're not. Delphi coils are $33 each. That's alot of hassle to save $24. And, in the end, the coils may not have been bad. If you were putting cheap wires on the truck, that may have been the problem. The $40 NGK set is crap and often they don't fit the coil posts. And, getting two bad coils at the same time, even for cheap parts, is statistically improbable.

About Lucky 8, and many of the other parts sources for Rover, they do like to lend inference that these parts are OEM. I did peek at their site and they talk about the BOSCH engine and reference a Rover OEM part number. It's misleading in that it leads the purchaser to an assumption.

I'm not sure how one gets into "hours on end" replacing wires on a D2. Pull the plenum.

As far as coil relocation, what a waste of money and time. If you install quality coils and wires, you won't have the need to revisit the job for another 100K. Chances are, your D2 won't be around by then. The stock coils are no more problematic than on any other vehicle. And if location leads to failure, then I don't know what to tell you about every coil-on-plug engine where the individual units are right on the head and under a cover.
 

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Actually having read the other thread on the other forum they have offered to refund your money when you send the defective parts back. Have you taken them up their offer?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Not to be harsh, but...


You bought the cheapest coils you could get. Lucky 8 isn't a global brand with a decades long reputation. They, in this case, buy cheap coils and resell them. There's a plague of brown-box parts in the industry, mostly coming out of China. AutoZone makes a fortune selling them to the unsuspecting. They sell garbage parts in a pseudo-branded box with a LIFETIME WARRANTY!! which is fantastic if you don't mind breakdowns, being stranded, tow bills and re-doing the job again. And people "assume they are coming from a respected manufacturer". They're not. Delphi coils are $33 each. That's alot of hassle to save $24. And, in the end, the coils may not have been bad. If you were putting cheap wires on the truck, that may have been the problem. The $40 NGK set is crap and often they don't fit the coil posts. And, getting two bad coils at the same time, even for cheap parts, is statistically improbable.

About Lucky 8, and many of the other parts sources for Rover, they do like to lend inference that these parts are OEM. I did peek at their site and they talk about the BOSCH engine and reference a Rover OEM part number. It's misleading in that it leads the purchaser to an assumption.

I'm not sure how one gets into "hours on end" replacing wires on a D2. Pull the plenum.

As far as coil relocation, what a waste of money and time. If you install quality coils and wires, you won't have the need to revisit the job for another 100K. Chances are, your D2 won't be around by then. The stock coils are no more problematic than on any other vehicle. And if location leads to failure, then I don't know what to tell you about every coil-on-plug engine where the individual units are right on the head and under a cover.
I have SAI, ergo the additionalwork.

You make the point about the lesson I learned better than I could have.

Buying coils based on price is definitely a cautionary tale.

And you're right about using "Bosch engine" to get the keyword Bosch in there. Tricky. When my 13 year-old coils finally go, will never replace them with anything but genuine Slovenian-made Bosch.

And how'd you guess that the 3 sets of wires I went thru were all NGK. Not only are they hard as heck to get off the coils, every time I pulled them on the plug end at least 2 of 8 would pull the wire from connector,even even when using an expensive pretty high quality plug wire puller.

The relocation kit came with Kingsborne 8mm wires, and I am ecstatic with the fit on both the plug and coil ends.
 

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Actually having read the other thread on the other forum they have offered to refund your money when you send the defective parts back. Have you taken them up their offer?
Even though it isn't worth my time and they refuse to use eBay as the arbitrator, as some other member "inferred" that perhaps I was trying to cheat LRPARTS/Lucky8 out of money/extra coils, out of principal they are going to be on their way in a priority mail box by the end of the week whether they doit thru eBay or not.
 

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Why NGK? Because they are notorious crap. Why a company with a stellar reputation for quality spark plugs offers such cheap and problem-prone ignition wires is beyond me.

I spent some years inside the automotive aftermarket distribution channel. Over the last 20 years the industry has seen some dramatic changes, including some huge consolidation, major player collapse, divestiture and the tsunami of China making it all an even bigger mess. But the biggest problem prior to all this happening, while it has gone on and to present day is returns. You would be astonished at how many parts are returned by professional shops (let alone consumers) and the single largest percentage by category is electrical. Why? Incompetence. Of all working vehicle service technicians, I'd estimate that fewer than 20 percent really understand electricity and its function in a vehicle. Another 20 can find their way around and the other 60 just guess. That is, if they'll touch it at all. Worst of all, in the top 40 percent of "competent " techs, a great number just guess at the issue rather than work it. They are perfectly willing to toss parts at a problem and rather than deal with having to sell those parts to a customer, especially when they didn't solve the problem, they put it back in the box and return it to the jobber.

Back to the NGK thing, in fairness to L8, while they may have shitty customer service and after sale support, there most likely is nothing wrong with those coils. They may, in reality, be cheap, Chinese crap. Or they may be coming off the same production line and even run as coils that manufacturer is contracted to produce for Bosch, Delphi or Standard. You'd be astonished to know the number of different boxes, and huge pricing spread, that you'll find on the exact same part from the exact same producer. But the rub is, there's no way to really know what you're getting.

Gone are the days of the parts "counterman" knowing as much or often more than the tech he's helping. Had Lucky 8 had much more than a 19-year-old mouth breather working for them, they would have asked "what wires". But that's what you wanted. You, that is, the collective "you", meaning the marketplace as a whole. You bought the lowest price and did it on-line. To sell at that price, there's no room in the margin for skilled help.
 

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Actually having read the other thread on the other forum they have offered to refund your money when you send the defective parts back. Have you taken them up their offer?
Even though it isn't worth my time, out of principal they are going to be on their way in a priority mail box by the end of the week.
 

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Even though it isn't worth my time, out of principal they are going to be on their way in a priority mail box by the end of the week.
As I said:

while they may have shitty customer service and after sale support, there most likely is nothing wrong with those coils.

Three bad sets of wires and two bad coils? All at once? No one's luck is that bad.
 

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CT090, I agree about the China stuff (I was part of a business we sold last winter that had a contract manufacturing "partner" in Shenzhen we had worked with for 6 years and with whom we produced and sold nearly 700,000 "ports" of product in that time, and years before that with a large -- Fortune 50 -- electronics manufacturer, first did business in China in 1989, so I've experienced first-hand those issues).

However, I have never had an out-of-the-box electrical car part failure in my 40ish years of working on cars until these coils.

Maybe I've been lucky with parts, and it finally caught up with me.

But I do have quite a base of current experience: 13 vehicles (some with my brother) that we work on ourselves -- 3 Saabs (don't ask), 2 Chevrolets (73 'vette, pickup), 2 Chryslers (minivans), 2 Porsches (911, 944), 2 Hondas (both Gen1 Insights — they’re the carbon offsets for the Porsches and ‘vette), 2 VWs (dune buggies actually), 1 Mazda (wankel RX-7) and of course 1 Land Rover D2. And a '32 Ford coupe Hot Rod and 2 '40 Fords that are still just rolling chassis projects at this point in time. And I am on the hunt for a 320i, 635csi, Fiat X1/9, Porsche 914, 924 and 928, Triumph TR8 and a VW Scirocco (1st gen, dual headlight) and in my dreams an Audi Ur Quattro and a 67’-’69 Mustang Fastback — if they ever have a price correction (doubtful). Some have said I am trying to build the world's best collection of second-class (workingman's) sports cars.

The consistently poor fit of the NGKs really surprised me, but I am sure that wasn't the issue.

First, the codes were always the same: P0301, P0305, P0306 (and a P0300 because of the multiple cylinders misfiring). Occasionally, there was also a P0304 and a P0308 (but I am pretty sure that these were wire related).

Second, I used the old wires initially (about a year old Magnacores?), and then kept going back to them in between NGK sets.

I admit I was lazy (maybe less lazy than passive-aggressive) in that I just didn't want to fight those SAI pipes and lie on top of the engine getting those coils out and back in again (it's just so tight back there and all the attaching bolts are blind and at angle that make even a rachet u-joint unusable), so I took the easy route of throwing parts at it again and again.

My intentions were good -- I wanted to pre-empt the eventual failure of the 13 year-old coils -- but the results left a lot to be desired.

And all that doesn't change the fact that I got some defective coils.

Finally, though I can empathize with your preference to keep things as original as possible and as the engineers intended them (I try to do that as much as possible on my better classic cars, even preferring NOS at a higher price if I can find them), in the case of the D2, the Solihull coil placement just seems so wrong to me for a GM V8, that I am nothing but ecstatic with the coil relocation results.
 

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As I said:




Three bad sets of wires and two bad coils? All at once? No one's luck is that bad.

The wires weren't bad out-of-the-box I don't think -- until I separated the plug boots from the wiresbecause the darn clips had so much tension in them and fit so tight.
 

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If I were a betting man, I'd be leaning towards the wires rather than the coils, simply due to the NGK track record. But typically it takes a while to see them fail.

All I'm saying is that there's plenty of benefit of the doubt to go around here.
 

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It is unfortunate that dodgy operators like this are out there.
Of course it is always the installers fault and not the products.
They give you a refund for the product once you pay to return it. But they don't pay for all the time you wasted trying to work out what is going on.

You are best to find someone that is trustworthy and makes sure their parts are good, no matter what they charge for it.

It should not matter whether it is cheap or not, they should not sell stuff at any price that is crap.

So it sounds like Lucky8 is a good place to stay away from.
 

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Sorry, I missed your second-to-last post and replied to your last-last one. It was a good move to try the other wires. So your point on them being bad is well-taken. It appears you eliminated the variable.

Having been around this industry as long as I have, I have seen every variation of incompetence blamed on everyone but the incompetent person. (not you). And electrical is by far the worst area- almost half of returns. Lazy or lesser-skilled techs will toss parts at a problem, replacing everything in the ignition system before finding a rubbed-through wire. It's tough to explain all those parts to Mrs. Smith, so they go back in the box and back to the Jobber. They have two choices- take them back or risk losing a profitable customer to the dozen other guys that have been kicking his door down with better offers on price and service. It's a plague on the industry and is no closer to being resolved than it was two decades ago. In fact, I think it's worsened.

We just had one of our trucks in the shop last night. Ford diesel. A week ago, we replaced two injectors. Comes back running terribly. Pull the valve cover and the top half of the two injectors are off the bodies. The four screws holing the caps on the two injectors are out- one in the head, three probably down in the pan. The manufacturer didn't tighten them. Now, these aren't cheap, Chinese parts. These are new, OEM injectors from the Ford dealer, in sealed Ford Parts packaging. The lesson? Anyone can screw up. Buying best-quality isn't foolproof. apparently. But you can lower your odds.

At least it's better than what was happening in the 60's and 70's in England. 70% of what left Lucas' back door was defective. Didn't stop MG, Jag and the rest of trying to build cars with them though. Aah, socialism. Ain't it grand?


On the SAI tubes- use a liberal amount of copper based anti-seize on them. And spray penetrating oil on the nut opening around the tube. Makes later removal much easier.
 
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