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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well folks, I fell for my own trap.

A couple of weeks ago I decided to let an independent tire shop fit 4 new Pirelli Scorpion Snow & Ice tires on my P38A.

Unfortunately, they used a regular car lift to raise the car during the work and blew all 4 air-bags.

At the moment I'm starting legal proceedings to recoup the $1500 they cost me in dealer repairs.

All this to save me $200 against the cost of having my local LR dealer supply and fit the tires.

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS assume a local indenpendent will cause your LR damage (in the US at least) unless you REALLY REALLY REALLY know otherwise.

My lawyer says I have an open and shut case, but in the meanwhile I'm without my Range Rover for over 3 weeks during the winter driving season. Oh Well. I live and learn!

For those in Iowa, the guilty party is Earl's Tire Center in Des Moines. Safe to say they're not getting any of my business ever again, even for my wife's Chevy Cavalier.
 

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how did the air bags blow? or what made em not work properly? I mean if these things ever go off road, then sooner or later one side or the other will be at full extension at some point.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Problem comes from having all 4 bags lisfted full-extension at the same time on a swing-arm lift which was placed under the suspension members. Not something that occurs naturally (unless you drop vertically from a high height, even coming off a dune you come down at an angle).

The EAS should have been disabled before they did the work (and they should have refused in any case, since they didn't have a truck lift to do the work properly).

In any case, I'm waiting to hear what the tire shop's response is to the demand letter I had my attorney send.
 

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Why didn't YOU tell them, or disable the EAS when you took it there? How would they know to refuse the work, if you didn't explain that the car had an air suspension. Perhaps if you had said something they might have done one wheel at a time with a floor jack. It seems to me you have some resposibility here. Apart from that issue, why did the airbags need replacing? I realize it's a P38A, but I thought they were similar construction to those on a Classic. Those bags can be popped off the seats, and reseated without problem, and without damage.
 

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I find it amazing that having the vehicle suspended on a lift would cause the bag to deploy. Seriously, was the vehicle running or something? It really doesn't make any logical sense what-so-ever. I've had my Disco on a similiar lift many, many, many times (I change my own oil and rotate my own tires) and have never had an issue. Now, I do not have air suspension but it still seems ridiculous. I even know a few people who were involved in accidents with their vehicles running (in park) and have been struck by another vehicle quite severly. The bags never deployed either (BMW's and Mercedes).

In all my years, I have never heard of anyone changing tires with the vehicle running, if this was the case, they maybe partially at fault. Otherwise, I would have my arm so far up the ass of the local LR dealer (not sure who that is in Iowa, but I can get you in touch with the guys in Minneapolis) and depand resolution.
 

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reread post.. made fatal error.. misunderstood the SRS bag's versus the suspension bags...


Still not sold on the idea, and still am very surprised.
 

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We will occasionally get a similar situation presented to us at our dealership. Your dealership screwed you, not the tire shop. A tow, yes. An hours labor to reseat and refill 4 bags, yes. $1,500? Absurd. 3 weeks? Assinine.

My biggest problem with side shops isn't the airbags, hey, **** happens. My peeve is the $350 worth of lugnuts they ruin when the(y) blast them off with cheap tools.

And who was the retarded engineer that couldn't make the shock absorbers 1 inch shorter so the bags won't blow off a toad?




Mr Tj said:
Well folks, I fell for my own trap.

A couple of weeks ago I decided to let an independent tire shop fit 4 new Pirelli Scorpion Snow & Ice tires on my P38A.

Unfortunately, they used a regular car lift to raise the car during the work and blew all 4 air-bags.

At the moment I'm starting legal proceedings to recoup the $1500 they cost me in dealer repairs.

All this to save me $200 against the cost of having my local LR dealer supply and fit the tires.

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS assume a local indenpendent will cause your LR damage (in the US at least) unless you REALLY REALLY REALLY know otherwise.

My lawyer says I have an open and shut case, but in the meanwhile I'm without my Range Rover for over 3 weeks during the winter driving season. Oh Well. I live and learn!

For those in Iowa, the guilty party is Earl's Tire Center in Des Moines. Safe to say they're not getting any of my business ever again, even for my wife's Chevy Cavalier.
 

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I had the same problem right after I bought my P38. I immediately took it in for alignment/rotate/balance, and since I knew almost nothing about the air suspension, other than it had it, I was not in a position to warn the shop not to use a body lift. When they lowered the car, it was sagging to the right bigtime. The shop foreman was very concerned, but I hopped in and started up the car, and tapped the suspension up a notch. The bags re-seated and I was on my way. Lucky I guess. This shop is a small chain, but I imagine very few Rovers, and there is not even a dealer in Tallahassee. While I would hope they would know better, the design of the suspension is the real problem here, and is solved by fitting Arnott 2nd gen airbags.

Oh, your dealer is ripping you off BIGTIME. Any idiot mechanic can re-seat the bags in a few minutes.

-Coach
 

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This recently happened to a client of mine. She took her Classic to a Firestone shop for an oil change. They ignored her comments to call me and they lifted it. 15 year-old bags don't like to be unseated. When they let it down, the valve block driver failed (having the valve energized for forever did it NO good).

They claimed that they called "Land Rover" and were told to "Just let it run and the bags will pump up"-yeah right, guess that "Land Rover" didn't know about the timeout function.

It cost Firestone's insurance company just shy of $2500 for repairs.

When the adjuster first called, he was very snippy. After I read him the relevant sections of the FSM, he admitted that he sends a memo to every Firestone shop in the country warning them about this every year. They see 2-3 per month. This one was far from the most expensive for them according to the adjuster.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
CoachDitka said:
Oh, your dealer is ripping you off BIGTIME. Any idiot mechanic can re-seat the bags in a few minutes.

-Coach
Problem wasn't that the bags needed reseating. Given their mileage level, it was basically the straw that finally broke the camel's back, and they actually perforated. I guess they weren't very cautious about how they lifted...

Hence the sudden need to replace all 4...

The time taken to do it has been more of a factor of the fact that I set my attorney on the tire shop, and doing that just takes time. The tire shop has however (after having been threatened with public legal action + newspaper publicity) finally paid up, and I have the car back in tip-top shape.

I must say I am loving the Scorpion Snow + Ice tires.. .ride is just peachy :)
 

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I disagree w/ the general advice about having all work done at dealership. This is expensive advice. Having tires put on at dealership? There are plenty of independent LR & general 4x4 shops that have excellent reputations in the local 4x4 community that can work on LRs. The dealership will charge you more per labor hour than anyone,,,and will upcharge you on all parts vs. what you could buy yourself (genuine or after-market) on line.

Clearly you had a problem w/ this shop but I think most would argue w/ the blanket advice, unless they had unlimited funds. Furthermore, the dealerships have stopped doing any off-road (or non-stock) mods for liability reasons so they are not an option for mods that you can't do yourself.

On a side note, you would probably be better off putting coil springs into your Rover than replacing the air bags anyway based on their track record of longevity. :drink1:
 

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I dunno- is it REALLY fair to have old rotted airbags and then get all new stuff on someone else's insurance just because they finally gave up the ghost? If you had loaned the P38 to a co-worker to drive to McDonald's and they had to drive over a curb slowly to go around a stalled vehicle and the stress of that small episode finally caused the worn, rotted bags to go- would you sue the guy? What about if a rusted muffler fell off when they hit a pot hole in the road?
I dunno- seems to me that MOST of the problem was worn parts.
 

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I kind of see Steve's point about old/warn parts, but at the same time the shop should have looked to see if anything special needed to be done with the air ride before lifting it. One of my strut towers broke when they replaced the front shocks, We did know until after I drove it for a few miles. Did I go after the shop for a new tower, No because **** happens and sometimes other parts brake when doing work. The shop however did install the new tower for free I just paid for the part. This case is different though in the fact that the shop should have taken the right steps in lifting the car and should be responsible for replacing the air bags IMO.

My old Lincoln Mark VIII had a full air ride system and whenever I took it to a tire place I made sure I turned off the air ride myself before giving them the car for added peace of mind. In that car there was a switch in the trunk you could flip to turn the air ride on and off. In the future you might want to remind any shop that is doing work on your car that it has an air ride system and that they need to follow the proper procedures when lifting it so it doesnt happen again.
 

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SCSL said:
I disagree w/ the general advice about having all work done at dealership. This is expensive advice. Having tires put on at dealership? There are plenty of independent LR & general 4x4 shops that have excellent reputations in the local 4x4 community that can work on LRs. The dealership will charge you more per labor hour than anyone,,,and will upcharge you on all parts vs. what you could buy yourself (genuine or after-market) on line.

Clearly you had a problem w/ this shop but I think most would argue w/ the blanket advice, unless they had unlimited funds. Furthermore, the dealerships have stopped doing any off-road (or non-stock) mods for liability reasons so they are not an option for mods that you can't do yourself.

On a side note, you would probably be better off putting coil springs into your Rover than replacing the air bags anyway based on their track record of longevity. :drink1:
HERE!!!HERE!!! I couldnt agree more. If I wanted someone from "Ford" to fit my Land Rover tyres I would take it to a Ford Dealership(Stealership). No one that knows a Land Rover Dealerships "Quality" of work would ever realy go there. I wouldnt trust a dealship to clean out my cat box more a less change my tyres.Last time I went to a Dalership they charged me for parts they never changed.(i.e Fuel and oil filters)
Seriously go to an indy shop where the real pro's are. Enthusiasts helping enthusiast is where the love is.Dealerships are for chumps and warranty claimants.Even then there are some indy shops with LR factory certified techs that wont bone ya when your back is turned even during warranty work. Am I bitter about dealership theives... F**K yes I am.:complain:

Sorry...I am going for my Beer now.:beer:
 

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TerryS said:
Why didn't YOU tell them, or disable the EAS when you took it there? How would they know to refuse the work, if you didn't explain that the car had an air suspension.

+1


You know what they say about assuming... To be honest, you should have slapped yourself across the face after this. How the fawk can you expect just some random shop to know? YOU know you have EAS, YOU know that it needs to be turned off, so why didn't YOU tell them?

live and learn.
 

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Mr Tj said:
Problem comes from having all 4 bags lisfted full-extension at the same time on a swing-arm lift which was placed under the suspension members. Not something that occurs naturally (unless you drop vertically from a high height, even coming off a dune you come down at an angle).
hehe...you mean like this:

<See Avatar>

I am with SCSL and others.....I dont think all work should be done at the dealer...I actually think most can be done by yourself or by others, at least rover independent shops. Plus, we have all heard about how much a dealer can screw you, not just on prices, but when stuff happens like vehicles falling off of lifts (dweb thread a while back), etc. **** happens.....I would never think that raising all of the wheels would bust the air bags.....actually, I would think the shocks would stop them from overextending.....like others said, they were probably ready to go anyway. Now that they are busted, dont bother getting new ones, upgrade to springs IMO.
 

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Man that sucks dude! This is why I don't usually let any other shop mess with my car, unless it is out of my ability to fix it, like pulling codes from the computer. I couldn't do that with out an expensive piece of equipment i would need for only one use. Like the problem with my ignition where I stripped the spark plug hole on my RRC, like a dumbass. :embarrassment: I fixed that problem myself. Or if I'm doing a lift to my Rover, I will lift it to my furthest extent where I can't figure it out, which should not be a problem.

If there is one place I trust to repair my Rover, it would be the dealership. Sure it maybe expensive, but you know the technicians there will have knowledge mostly on Land Rovers a the chance of a f$ck-up like in your incident, will be to a minimum.

Amen! Hopefully this won't happen again, man. Ouch.:bawling:
 

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Of course, a dealer technician used an impact wrench to install the wheels on my G4. I bent the stock lug wrench trying to get the first one off, so we then snapped off the end of a MAC breaker bar before taking a huge impact wrench to them to get them off. Even THAT struggled with it.
Dealer techs are like anywhere else- a few give a sheeyit, but most don't.
I really like how after waiting 9 hours for my truck to get a battery and one spark plug wire replaced, they stuck the new battery in the trunk in a bag and set the new plug wire on the seat after I told them to isntall the wire so I can have the spare back. THAT is the kinda crap one comes to expect. Anyway- we're dealer bashing which is a little off topic.
We put P38's on the lift regularly and are careful to turn off the EAS so it doen't react and we reseat the bags- but if the bags were worn out to begin with, it seems kinda like a scam to "lawyer" your way into new ones.
 
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