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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Right guys. here's the problem.

I have a 1985 Landrover 90 2.5 petrol. Feeble engine to say the least but the rest of it is mint and my local Landrover mechanic says I should do an engine transplant rather than buying a newer LR as most LRs 10 years younger than mine are in worse structual condition.

So. My options are a V8 or a 200/300TDI. I cant decide which. Here is a list of pros and cons for them both.

V8 Pros
Its a V8!!!!! the smell, the sound the "V8ness" of it is awsome
I have an LPG kit so fuel is half the cost of petrol/deisel
Cheap to buy the engine
cost is 12p per mile

V8 Cons
15 MPG
Can only get about 180 miles to a tank of gas
Bulk Head will need modifing to take it so its costly to fit
You cant buy LPG in places like africa where I will be taking it so I'll end up with a low milage and still costly vehicle.
Hard to waterproof, V8s hate wading

TDI Pros
Easy to fit, Bolts right in
Easy to water proof
25 mpg
Can get about 300 miles to a tank
Frees up my LPG kit to fit to the Ford Falcon V8 that I'm getting
Torque low down is better than the V8

TDI Cons
Expensive to Buy
Expensive to run Will cost about 14.4p per mile


So there we are.. What am I going to do.... V8 sounds so much better and is cheaper to run in the long run (as long as I'm about 100 miles from a garage that sells LPG) but the TDI is the more sound choice for serious trips into Africa and proper off roading.

I've got a feeling (if the users are mainly American) that you will say the V8.. but remember.. our Petrol is 4 times more expensive than yours and there are not that many places that Sell LPG up my end of the country. Means I'm filling up every day and planning trips very carefully..
 

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You seem to be between a rock and a hard place. From the pros and cons, it difficult to figure out. You obviously have an "inner" preference, anyhow, here's my suggestion for FWIW.... Go with the V8 and hook up the LPG as a dual fuel setup.
BTW, you will find that the petrol engine is just as capable off-road as the diesel. in off-road situations, it usually comes down to driver ability.
 

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Can't see why the bulkhead will need modifying as some 90's and lots of 110's came standard with the V8. Engine mounting brackets on the chassis - yes they will probably need modifying.
In some situations off road the extra POWER will help, especially if you have to "attack" a steep climb with little run up.
V8 - only way to go!
Good luck & keep us posted.
Robin Brown
 

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Like Robin, I don't think you need to modify the bulkhead. There are different "Tunnel" adapter sections used in Defenders, depending upon which engine/gearbox is used, but I thought the bulkhead was the same for all. Perhaps I'm mistaken.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Every Landrover mechanic I have approached have said they really dont want to fit a V8 and becuase of the amount of work involved it would cost alot. They have been trying to turn me to TDi cos they can do it in a short time for very little charge..
 

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When switching from a petrol engine to a deisel or a deisel to a petrol there are a lot of small things that can rear their ugly head and cause some headaches some times it is just easier to stay with the same fuel that you are already useing. Just my opinion though.
Adam
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Go on 130cc... Tell me. I'm almost over to the TDi side now.. tell me the things that could be a problem with a fuel change..... I'd quite like an excuse to go for a V8..
 

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Seems like we're narrowing down the options. I remember a little while ago reading about running a diesel on LPG, so I did a quick search. Here's a site you could look at that do such a conversion. I'm sure if you continue searching you will find more.
[URL=http://www.p-i-fuelsystems.com/powershot_diesel.htm
 

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Things such as the glow plug wiring ( eventhough it's simple) can cause headaces fuel supply lines diamaters as well as the tanks. I know of one conversion on a tojo where the mechanic removed everything from the diesel rollover (donor vehicle) dash, ignition fuel lines tank fillerhose the works to install on to the petrol vehicle, after all of the work there were still problems with the power steering and cooling both easily fixed but it's the little details that can catch people up. But people who do conversions all the time or if the conversion is using a prefab kit they can be fine. But if I had an lpg already on a car even with the fuel on limited acces that's where I would stay. Pluss as you have stated my deisel even with a open exhaust does not even compare to to the rumble of a v8 the cool factor is definatly there.
One problem with the v8 though are not just wading carbs don't like big angles and can cause a stall at the worst time, if you have the cash an injection system will fix this problem.
The bigest mistake you could make is not going for the one you really won't, regret is one hell of a kicker.
Adam
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
This is doing my head in... I just cannot decide :dunno: .. The pros and cons are increasing on both sides with your advice.


Point taken about carbs and angle. So am I right in thinking.. The EFI V8 engines are a better match to the TDi engines with the only draw back being the range I can get on a tank of fuel?


If so then I think I may be decided on a 3.9 EFi V8 with my current LPG kit. There isnt too much ECU mumbo jumbo on the EFi is there? I dont want an engine any more advanced than the 300TDi.
 

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xpower racer said:
Right guys. here's the problem.

I have a 1985 Landrover 90 2.5 petrol. Feeble engine to say the least but the rest of it is mint and my local Landrover mechanic says I should do an engine transplant rather than buying a newer LR as most LRs 10 years younger than mine are in worse structual condition.

So. My options are a V8 or a 200/300TDI. I cant decide which. Here is a list of pros and cons for them both.

V8 Pros
Its a V8!!!!! the smell, the sound the "V8ness" of it is awsome
I have an LPG kit so fuel is half the cost of petrol/deisel
Cheap to buy the engine
cost is 12p per mile

V8 Cons
15 MPG
Can only get about 180 miles to a tank of gas
Bulk Head will need modifing to take it so its costly to fit
You cant buy LPG in places like africa where I will be taking it so I'll end up with a low milage and still costly vehicle.
Hard to waterproof, V8s hate wading

TDI Pros
Easy to fit, Bolts right in
Easy to water proof
25 mpg
Can get about 300 miles to a tank
Frees up my LPG kit to fit to the Ford Falcon V8 that I'm getting
Torque low down is better than the V8

TDI Cons
Expensive to Buy
Expensive to run Will cost about 14.4p per mile


So there we are.. What am I going to do.... V8 sounds so much better and is cheaper to run in the long run (as long as I'm about 100 miles from a garage that sells LPG) but the TDI is the more sound choice for serious trips into Africa and proper off roading.

I've got a feeling (if the users are mainly American) that you will say the V8.. but remember.. our Petrol is 4 times more expensive than yours and there are not that many places that Sell LPG up my end of the country. Means I'm filling up every day and planning trips very carefully..
Hi - Like the sound of the V8 thing - what did you decide ? I would love to fit a v8 growler to my 200 tdi - but the existing engine is mint - how expensive is it to get a v8 fitted - do you know ??

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
What I would do If I got he V8 route is buy a doner Rangerover Classic for about £500 (seen them advertised every day) and use the V8 and both axles off it.. Salvage anything else I can off it then give it away if the shell is in good nick.... otherwise skip it...

My LR mech mate will do all the labour for about £300 so I'm looking at less than £1000 (lets include leeway for problems) for the whole engine conversion including new axles (my front one is in tatters) with disk brakes all round.

The TDi route it totally unknown to me... Other than he will fit it for nearly nothing and he has spare axles I can buy off him for not alot to sort the brakes out.

Anyone got any idea how much a 200/300 tdi engine with ansils costs?
 

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Interesting dilemma. I’ve had a standard petrol 90, a V8 110 and a Tdi 110 in both Africa and Scotland so I am aware of some of the issues that you are juggling.

If you go for a V8, get an old one without any fancy Efi crap. Don’t go for any extra power by boring it out or anything, the old standard V8 has so much in reserve it is virtually bomb-proof. Fit a luminition kit and waterproof that (I’ve had the bow wave break over the bonnet and it keep running in that set up). Fit a 110 petrol tank under the rear and a side tank under each seat. Fit K&N filters. Low rev torque for dirt road hills and engine braking for steep descents is way better with the V8 than the Tdi. (Learn how to lift the carburettor piston with one hand and a long screwdriver while you turn the ignition key with the other so that you can get it to start above 40 Centigrade).

The Tdi will do the job (add the extra tanks anyway!). No dramas, no excitement, chug on day after day, no worries about how long the fuel is gong to last, no V8 burble, no barbecuing breakfast between the cylinder heads…

Tough choice
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
this is getting hard by the day. can we have a vote (with a brief reason)


All those who think I should get a 3.5 twin carb V8
All those who think I should get a 3.9 EFi
All those who think I should get a 2.5 TDi
 

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The 3.9 efi would be my choice, because after you have done the Africa bit, you will have a reliable motor with sufficient power. The 3.5 carby would be my next choice.
 

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Have to aggree with disco 3.9 efi. I would not worry about the computer bit as much as you read about people with faults there are a hundred more who don't see the problem or have faults. And if there was no advantage to the efi why are most manafacture all moving this way.
Adam
 

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While I am badly torn between the Tdi and the twin carb 3.5 V8 I don't agree with the thought that the EFi is a good option. If you are talking about remote parts of Africa (rather than just the relatively developed parts such as Southern Africa) you want the minimum of complexity in your engine. I've had bush mechanics (the sort who have had to borrow my tools!) strip and reassemble carbs - scary at the time but they've done a surprisingly good job. You have to weigh up the chances of something going wrong against the chances of repair. If you are supremely confident that the complex bits can't fail in a remote location then by all means accept them. But my attitude to risk is that if something can go wrong it probably will and I want to know that I can either fix it myself or I have with me the necessary tools and spares so that someone else can do it. So, to me, the simpler the engine the better for using in remote areas.
 

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Yes Worms I agree with what you are saying and I considered the 3.5 carby option as a first choice as well, however, I suggested the efi based on what I would do if it was me that had posted the original question. Let's have a quick look at what the dilemma is all about (forget the diesel option as this now seems to be bypassed). The 3.5L (I believe the LPG idea is dead also), is less complicated in the "African safari" situation, but bear in mind that the vehicle is eventually (in the shorter term), going back to Scotland, and, as an every day driver, the 3.9 beats the 3.5.
Xpower, it is going back home with you isn't it?
 

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We are presuming that it survives to go home!

Once home, either V8 engine is more than competent (as long as the owner has his own oil well or the lpg conversion kit). I haven't looked up the data but since the Efi comes with additional emissions control baggage, does this not undo some of the benefits of the more powerful engine?

Actually there is a safety issue here, too. Survival prospects for a V8 were always lower than for any of the others options. Hope the brakes are going to be upgraded to suit and the weight placed on the roof is kept to a minimum, otherwise without a great deal of care its going to roll.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I'm in Scotland now. I'm after making my 90 into a vehicle that will be trust worthy doing a (say... 3month) expo accross dessert and the like and still be feasible for basic off roading that the UK and europe offers. (I've got a new car for the every day aspect of driving).

I'll be using the 90 to go around the uk and europe (to get to places to go off roading) so thats why I want it to be economical (V8 with LPG).

I've driven all over the Oman in a Army Tdi and it never let me down once.. But then I had the peice of mind of amazing back up facilities if it did ever go wrong. Also I wont be putting much on the roof.. I'll be using a military trailer. I much prefer that meathod and am very used to pulling trailer in hostile envoronments.. Also mean you can detatch the trailer and go do more serious off roading for fun.
 
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