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Discussion Starter #1
Is there an old school way or something you can buy to force into the thermostat spring so it will stay 100% open ?



I had an issue where my fan blew up and destroyed things in the engine bay. Before this happened it was running 183-188 consistently. After the explosion and all the repairs and cash I've thrown at it - the damn thing goes from 190-210+ with wild swings (sometimes more, sometimes less). Temp goes down when I rev it in idle (makes no sense). I've replaced the water pump again - this time with Genuine LR from John Craddock UK - No change in temps. I have already gone through THREE (a defective 180 from Rimmer Bros and 2 black Britparts) and there is no change. I spent thousands already. I cannot change these damn temps. This is driving me insane. I need to have the same temps as before or I'm gonna go nuts.



I just want to force it open and drive around with it 100% open 100% of the time. How do you do that? There is no information on any of the forums how to do this.
 

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very disco
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I think you’re looking at this wrong, and I recall this subject being beaten to death in a previous thread.

The thermostat has zero control over your engine temp. Zero.

When you first start your truck in the morning, the engine is cold. While the engine is cold, it’s not running at peak efficiency, and the engine isn’t cooling itself (to allow warmup). The thermostat decides when the engine is warmed up and to start cooling.

If your truck wants to be 190, it will be 190 with or without a thermostat, it will just take longer to get there.

A better thread would list everything that broke and what you replaced it with. This would help identify which components may be at fault.
 

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very disco
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i do not believe there's a determination of faulty thermostat. i believe there's a misunderstanding of what the thermostat does.

it was gone over recursively in a previous thread:
https://www.landroversonly.com/forums/f40/all-flow-thermostat-155801/index2.html

i believe the misconception is that a 180 degree thermostat keeps the engine at 180 degrees.

the truth of the matter is that a 180 degree thermostat allows engine cooling to begin at 180 degrees.

if you fit an all-flow thermostat (or gut out a thermostat) you're actually doing yourself a disservice because it will take longer for your engine to come up to operating temperature. no matter which thermostat you have fitted (or gutted), your operating temperature will remain determined by the cooling power of your radiator and fan system.

also, your revving makes perfect sense... the faster your engine is moving, the faster it's pumping your coolant through the cooling system, resulting in lower temperature
 

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Discussion Starter #5
.

If your truck wants to be 190, it will be 190 with or without a thermostat, it will just take longer to get there.

It's at 190 on the low end. Most of the time it's at 200+. Before the explosion it was 180's most of the time. That tells me something is wrong internally. The first T-Stat was defective and both black Britpart T stats are running the same. Everything related to cooling was replaced with new and I have a large 100% aluminum radiator.

The only culprit I can see is the T-Stat. I just ordered another PEL500110G from the Dealership in New Jersey. So now I have ordered 4 T-stats to fix this problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
How are you determining that the thermostats you got were defective?


190-210 is normal operation temperature.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Temps before the explosion vs. after. I don't want 190-210. I want 180-190 like I had before.
 

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very disco
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dude, i cannot stress this any further:

the thermostat doesn't control the temp of your engine. you could try 100 different thermostats and find the same result.

why don't we have this conversation:
Everything related to cooling was replaced with new and I have a large 100% aluminum radiator.
you have a different radiator than you had before.
you have other different parts than you had before too, i'm assuming.

your radiator and fan are the primary sources of cooling for your engine.
you have a new, non-OEM radiator, and judging by your threads, various other new bits in the cooling circuit.

i believe that if there's a difference in operating temp, you'll find it here, NOT in endless thermostats...
changing your thermostat will NOT affect your engine temperature. changing your radiator, and other connectors/doodads in the cooling system WILL affect your engine temperature.

You can buy 1,000,000 thermostats and all that will change is how long it takes to get to temp. If your operating temp is now 20 degrees higher, again let’s talk about the changes in your cooling system. If you fitted new tees or wyes (which I know you did), or new plumbing with glass sights (which I know you did), you might consider doing a test week without them. Incorrect angles in wye fittings, or fittings with smaller inner diameters can create bottlenecks or other disruptions to coolant flow. Also a possibility is cavities of air in your rad or lines.

Believe it or not, much thought and engineering went into the cooling system, and all of this aftermarket equipment that you’ve installed has possibly (probably?) changed the dynamics of the system.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
i do not believe there's a determination of faulty thermostat. i believe there's a misunderstanding of what the thermostat does.

it was gone over recursively in a previous thread:
https://www.landroversonly.com/forums/f40/all-flow-thermostat-155801/index2.html

i believe the misconception is that a 180 degree thermostat keeps the engine at 180 degrees.

the truth of the matter is that a 180 degree thermostat allows engine cooling to begin at 180 degrees.

if you fit an all-flow thermostat (or gut out a thermostat) you're actually doing yourself a disservice because it will take longer for your engine to come up to operating temperature. no matter which thermostat you have fitted (or gutted), your operating temperature will remain determined by the cooling power of your radiator and fan system.

also, your revving makes perfect sense... the faster your engine is moving, the faster it's pumping your coolant through the cooling system, resulting in lower temperature


Am not concerned with how long it takes to warm up. I've already changed all the parts related to the cooling system and flushed it out a million times. I installed the glass tube and the water has no particles in it. This has to be the T-Stat. I'm going to drill holes in the T-stat and put screws into it to hold the spring down 100% max. I'll see what happens and report back.
 

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very disco
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Perhaps this will make sense to you:

Your lightbulb went out.
You replaced the lightbulb with a different lightbulb.
Your new lightbulb is too bright now.
You change the light switch.
You change the light switch again.
And again.
And again.
No matter how many times you change the light switch, your bulb will still be too bright.
 

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I doubt that anything logical would make sense to the OP though i'll say something maybe it'll help somebody with the same problem, based on the following statement
...the damn thing goes from 190-210+ with wild swings (sometimes more, sometimes less).
this can be caused by any of the following:

(If the reading is based on OBD scanner)
1. temp sensor misbehaviour,
2. a bad contact on it's circuit
3. ECM or scanner problem.

If the reading is based on additional temp gauge with it's own circuit that one must be double checked as well.

As long as the accuracy of that "swinging" 190-210 reading is not ruled out nothing else matters cos the coolant temp cant have ''wild swings'' as it's against the laws of thermodynamics(provided i didnt misunderstand what ''wild swings'' mean)

Anyway, when it comes to engine temp the correct way is to fit additional temp gauge which monitors directly the temp with hardwired circuit if you want accurracy not to rely on OBD which shows you a reading delivered by the ECM based on a signal which passed through several connectors

off coursse that i sustain the theory that the thermostat is there to help initial warm up of the engine IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FINAL TEMP AFTER A LONG RUN WHATSOEVER
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I doubt that anything logical would make sense to the OP though i'll say something maybe it'll help somebody with the same problem, based on the following statementthis can be caused by any of the following:

(If the reading is based on OBD scanner)
1. temp sensor misbehaviour,
2. a bad contact on it's circuit
3. ECM or scanner problem.
Thanks ! I've just ordered a Genuine Land Rover water temp sensor from the dealer. I did not consider it could be a faulty sensor. Perhaps the sensor was hit by some shrapnel from the fan blades. I am also wondering if the outside ambient air temp sensor plays a part.

The scanner is fine because the Ultra Gauge and the Nanocom readings match.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
the coolant temp cant have ''wild swings'' as it's against the laws of thermodynamics(provided i didnt misunderstand what ''wild swings'' mean)

It swings from 190 -210. This seems to happen on curves and for no reason. For example one time it climbed to 215 idling in heavy traffic. Then as traffic cleared it slowly went down to 190 then 188 then back up to 197. That is what I mean by swings. Before the temperate would maintain itself in a narrow range consistently. After the fan exploded it went up to 190-210+ all summer (I live in Vegas and it was 100+ all summer here).

Prior the fan exploding I lived in Florida and we had a hot summer with 90+ consistent. The coolant temps still maintained in the 180's. Maybe 1-2 degrees higher. Overall you could not tell the difference between winter temps and summer temps.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
dude, i cannot stress this any further:

the thermostat doesn't control the temp of your engine. you could try 100 different thermostats and find the same result.

why don't we have this conversation:


you have a different radiator than you had before.
you have other different parts than you had before too, i'm assuming.



............................... all of this aftermarket equipment that you’ve installed has possibly (probably?) changed the dynamics of the system.

Putting a tropical 180 T-stat gives you lower temps than an 195 degree arctic T-stat. So if the Thermostat is partially stuck or will not max open - this could affect the temps. I have the same large aluminum radiator style I had before. One was an AlliSport. One was a made in China copy. Both showed the same temps. Changing the Rad did not work. I also finished cleaning the Rad with coil foam cleaner and muratic acid. Same temps. I also replaces the Airtex Water pump with a Geniune LR water pump. No change. I flushed the coolant 20 or 30 times with distilled water and Prestone Flush. No change. Then I replaced all the coolant hoses with Geniune and Gates. No change.

The bottom line is this thing ran 180-190 before. And now it runs 190-210.

After exhausting all the options I am left with a faulty T-stat (bad luck) or thanks to Serryfees suggestion a bad water temp sensor ( just ordered a new one GLR).

Your comment on the positions and angles of the hoses is interesting. I am assuming the T-stat must be straight. And the top hose perfectly level? I will go down and look at the hoses angles and see if they are perfect now.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Believe it or not, much thought and engineering went into the cooling system, and all of this aftermarket equipment that you’ve installed has possibly (probably?) changed the dynamics of the system.
I've added the aluminum Allisport (with water level sensor): https://www.allisport.com/shop/performance-products/tanks-and-reservoirs/header-tanks/discovery-2-v8-and-late-td5-header-tank-with-float-level-sender-switch/

Allisport Aluminum Radiator : https://www.allisport.com/shop/performance-products/alloy-radiators/discovery-2-v8-alloy-radiator/

SportsCentre Aluminum T coolant hose connector: https://www.sportscarcentre.ca/aluminium-coolant-pipe-t-connector-for-discovery-2-v8-s?mid=948

Carrs 4x4 Aluminum 4 way connector: https://carrs4x4.com/collections/new-parts/products/land-rover-discovery-ii-99-04-coolant-hose-4-way-aluminum-tube-by-carrs4x4

Geniune Water Pump from UK: https://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/land-rover-discovery/discovery-2/parts/cooling-and-heating/stc4378-gen-genuine-water-pump-efi-v8-range-rover-95-02-discovery-2.html

And Gates and Genuine LR hoses. The coolant has remained the same (Distilled Water + Purple Ice)



All of these modifications should improve the cooling system. But I got maybe a 1 degree difference from before. I am looking at the hoses making sure they are perfectly vertical and horizontal now.
 

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The scanner is fine because the Ultra Gauge and the Nanocom readings match.
so after the sensor is ruled out it remains the wiring and ECM
It swings from 190 -210. This seems to happen on curves and for no reason. For example one time it climbed to 215 idling in heavy traffic. Then as traffic cleared it slowly went down to 190 then 188 then back up to 197. That is what I mean by swings.
that is another confirmation of erratic reading rather than real temperature issue
Putting a tropical 180 T-stat gives you lower temps than an 195 degree arctic T-stat.
No, the 195 stat will make the engine to reach the operating temp after a shorter run that's all...once fully opened no matters the opening temp cos the flow through an opened 180 or 195 or what ever thermostat is the same
So if the Thermostat is partially stuck or will not max open - this could affect the temps.
that's true but it can happen with any thermostat no matter what opening temp or brand
 

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very disco
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I think the list of parts is helpful. Yes it’s possible that you had a faulty thermostat which couldnt open fully. It’s also possible that you’ve had several bad thermostats in a row, but again... this is highly unlikely.

Fery’s supposition about a bad temp sensor is more than feasible, but if you see upswings in temp that DO fall back down when you increase the throttle, the temp sensor seems to be working properly.

EDIT:

when OP mentions "swings in temp" and refers to idling... i will posit that a bigass V8 at idle in 90+ temp is going to get hot.
the water pump only spins as quickly as the engine RPM, so when you're idling, you're getting the lowest amount of coolant circulation.
yes, it's true, higher RPMs results in greater heat generation, but going from idle to 3000rpm may double the heat generation and quadruple the cooling power, resulting in a net gain of cooling. my aprilia does NOT like to idle... even on a hot day on the freeway it hangs around 180, but if i sit in stop/go traffic, the bike will climb up to 210 where the cooling system can keep it. once i start moving, i am introducing higher coolant circulation PLUS airflow over the radiator, resulting in cooling.

if you drive for 25 blocks at 30mph, your temp will "swing" back down until you stop and idle, at which point you could expect it to "swing" back up.

i could be wrong, but it really sounds like there's a fault in your cooling system that isn't allowing your engine to maintain the temps you saw before.

i would bet my life savings and my retirement that it's not the thermostat
 

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Maybe ...

just maybe ...

the fancy Allisport radiator ...

isn't all it's cracked up to be.


There's no reason a DII cruising down the highway should have temps over 200 unless ...

the radiator isn't doing its job well.


The fan has nothing to do with cooling at cruising speeds ...

and it's unlikely the water pump isn't moving enough coolant ...

and it's unlikely you've had that many faulty thermostats all in a row ...

so that leaves ...

the radiator.


Buy a Nissens ...,

install it ...,

and see what happens.


But as Sierrafery said ...,

it's unlikely you will listen to this advice.


Good luck ...,

and please, please, for the love of God ...,

keep posting on this forum.
 

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Just add I have driven a lot of V8's from little 302 CUI to the big boy a Olds 445 and now the Rover V8. The only cooling issues I have had on any of them, were bust thermostats stuck closed and clogged rads.

My Rover has a old nissen rad put in by the Previous owner, a 108 thermostat and because my fan was chipped a Hayden clutch and Dorman fan.

On a hot summer day 38 deg c, moving up a 30% grade for 20 minutes in the dust and at idle rpm, the speedo did not even register I hit all of 215. As soon as we topped out and start moving back down to 188 - 190.

You have a cooling system problem not a thermostat problem.

Figure that out and you will be good, but tossing parts and removing parts will not solve the issue.
 

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very disco
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You have a cooling system problem not a thermostat problem.
i've been saying this all along lolol.

but we are all wrong, and the fifth thermostat will fix it watch.
 

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i've been saying this all along lolol.

but we are all wrong, and the fifth thermostat will fix it watch.
Hah!

Or no thermostat at all!

"All the engineers were WRONG! Only I,I,I know the truth!"
 
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