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i've already posted in other thread of the op on the same subject that imo in a hot climate 210 is not excessive as the engine's builder considered that the engine needs extra cooling by activating the electric fan at 212 and stopping it at 202 so anything below that it's not considered overheat... The normal operating temp of any engine is around 195 and running it for long below 190 as the op wants means unnecessary exposure to higher egt(exhaust gas temp) as the lower the ect(engine coolant temp) is the more fuel is injected which increases the egt.... Though i'm sure that any theory like that is in vain for somebody who is convinced that the opening temp of a thermostat is a factor in the engine's temp after a long run and if before a catastrophic failure that engine ran cooler than normal for some reason that situation must be restored.
Yes!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #62
Oh yea. :) Oh yea :) Ohhhhhhhhhhh yea !!!!!!!!


:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)


THE NEW PEL500110 THERMOSTAT IS INSTALLED AND THE TEMPS ARE 185 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)


The temps hung at 183 then slowly to 185 then up to 186.6 then back DOWN to 185 and this is with 100% distilled water BEFORE I add the water wetter ! :) :) :) :)


The temps are DOWN DOWN DOWN.



The problem with this fiasco was THREE DEFECTIVE THERMOSTATS.

The first was a defective PEL500110 from Rimmer Bros (they made the return process intentionally difficult and time wasting) that spiked over 220. I tried every which way to bleed it thinking I was doing something wrong. After 10+ drains and fills with distilled water and boiling it only to watch it come open a little bit I came to the conclusion it was defective.

The second and third were BOTH BLACK BRIT PARTS. The second Britpart saw 190-210 temps AND the third.

The FOURTH Thermostat was another PEL500110 from the dealership online. This is the one that worked. I did not run it for as long as I should have but that fact it was hanging at 183 for so long before moving up to 185 then 186.6 then back down. But by this time the other Thermostat would have been into the 190's.

So this appears to have been the culprit. The soft spring thermostat was the key. I did see on Amazon a seller named Land Rover/Brit Part selling the PEL500110. Not sure if that means BritPart is doing some manufacturing for Land Rover under their license or what. But the first PEL500110 from Rimmer Bros was 100% defective. I saw the Black Britpart being advertised as 178 or 179 so I bought it. But I am now out almost $250 in Thermostats. Nonetheless I am glad these temps are back down.

I was worried I destroyed the engine when the fan exploded and all the oil spewed out and I drove it up the mountain to get to a safer spot. And there were flakes later in the oil pan later. I need to run it hard for now to know for sure if it's going to stay at the old temps. But right now the temps are hanging around 185.

I am going to take it out for a hard spin and report if it stays.


Oh yea ! :grin:grin:grin
 

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Discussion Starter #63
Wow. Thanks to the six members who contributed to this thread beginning with bimmertech this morning.

And to WLADiscoII99, even if you are correct that the design of the Allisport radiator is superior to anything else, you ignored my point that you may have gotten a bad one. Manufacturing quality control is not always perfect.

Plus, you blithely ignore the fact that many (most? all?) forum members get great performance from "inferior" Nissens radiators. Allisport radiators are superior only if they perform in a way superior to others, not just because of what the company's hyperbole says.

And again, please, please, please do not stop posting to this forum.

Thanks!

I got a good one. Temps are back down. It was the three thermostats. Another lesson in buying Britpart. I bought it because the PEL500110 said 180 and the Britpart advertised 178 or 179. Will not buy Britpart again if I can help it.


Your Nissans might be sufficient for where you live but I am out here in Vegas where temps stay over 110 in the summer. I am pretty sure (assuming the temps hold) my temps would be lower than a Nissans especially in the desert or summer. If you ever were in the desert and wanted something similar to an Allisport you can take a chance on the Chinese GPR racing radiators on ebay. They lowered the price down to $300 on those. But if you get a defective radiator and want to return it they will rip you off. But that rad got the same temps as the Allisport but was larger with more aluminum. The side tanks are square and had allot of aluminum vs. the rounded tanks on the Allisport.

The Allisport is top quality as I believe all their products are. They even sell an oil cooler with more volume than stock which I will buy soon.

It was the thermostat that was defective on both the black Britparts - which were ordered at the same time.
 

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Discussion Starter #64
I've already posted in other thread of the OP on the same subject that IMO in a hot climate 210 is not excessive as the engine's builder considered that the engine needs extra cooling by activating the electric fan at 212 and stopping it at 202 so anything below that it's not considered overheat... the normal operating temp of any engine is around 195 and running it for long below 190 as the OP wants means unnecessary exposure to higher EGT(exhaust gas temp) as the lower the ECT(engine coolant temp) is the more fuel is injected which increases the EGT.... though i'm sure that any theory like that is in vain for somebody who is convinced that the opening temp of a thermostat is a factor in the engine's temp after a long run and if before a catastrophic failure that engine ran cooler than normal for some reason that situation must be restored.

I don't care about exhaust gas temps because I don't have cats. This means the heat just blows out and also gives that awesome gurgling sound when you take your foot off the pedal on the highway.

I feel 210 is excessive. Heat degenerates matter. If it can run at 185 and not 210 that is what I want. Especially in a hot climate.

The temperature on the DII's that the truck stops running rich is 185 yes ? So if it runs at 185 that is optimal yes ?
 

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The temperature on the DII's that the truck stops running rich is 185 yes ? So if it runs at 185 that is optimal yes ?
NO. I can only repeat what i've already said: NORMAL OPERATING TEMP OF ANY ENGINE IS AROUND 195 REGARDLESS OF HOT OR COLD CLIMATE.
I don't care about exhaust gas temps because I don't have cats. This means the heat just blows out and also gives that awesome gurgling sound
and where do you think that the heat which gives you the awesome noise is coming from? ... maybe it builds up in the exhaust manifold after the valves while the engine runs cooler :eek

dont bother with it, be happy with your ''cool'' engine
 

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Discussion Starter #66
Reporting back after a long ride.

The temps are now 183-185-188 city driving. Apologies but for future owners/readers I need stress I think this was in fact the thermostat (partially blocked or just using Britparts) and not the engine or radiators or the little temp thermostat. I could've been air in the system but I flushed and bled it so many times with distilled water I lost count so I don't think it was air.

After idling in the super long line at In-In-Out 10-20 minutes with no revving the ultra gauge peaked to 194 and came back down. These temps are perfect. Exactly what I had before. :) There are no more -190-210+ crazy swings in temperature. Everything is staying in the 180 range now. This is fantastic. I do notice a little difference in pedal responsiveness though. Not much just a tad.

Thanks again everyone ! :)

Now on to installing the ARB awning with side room and a new HAM radio antenna. :) :) :)
 

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Discussion Starter #67
NO. I can only repeat what i've already said: NORMAL OPERATING TEMP OF ANY ENGINE IS AROUND 195 REGARDLESS OF HOT OR COLD CLIMATE.
and where do you think that the heat which gives you the awesome noise is coming from? ... maybe it builds up in the exhaust manifold after the valves while the engine runs cooler :eek

dont bother with it, be happy with your ''cool'' engine
With your comments above I think now is a great time to look into "chipping" the engine. Perhaps someone offers a "chip" that can stop the engine from running rich at say 179. This way you can get the cooler temperatures and not burn extra gas.
 

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but we are all wrong, and the fifth thermostat will fix it watch.
I knew it!!! In spite of common knowledge, thermodynamics, fluid dynamics, and probability.
 

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The temps hung at 183 then slowly to 185 then up to 186.6 then back DOWN to 185 and this is with 100% distilled water BEFORE I add the water wetter !
I'm glad for you that you solved this problem, but I have to ask, do you plan to use antifreeze or do you plan to run 100% distilled water?
 

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Discussion Starter #70
I knew it!!! In spite of common knowledge, thermodynamics, fluid dynamics, and probability.
You are trying to say something here but I'm not sure what. All three thermostats were defective. That is why the Rover is now getting 185 temps. Both black Britparts were purchased at the same time. So it's possible they were part of the same batch. I would not be surprised if you see other posters complaining they are getting higher temperatures with their $35 "180" Black Brit-part thermostats. And I think you know what "Brit-Part" rhymes with ... :)
 

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Discussion Starter #71
I'm glad for you that you solved this problem, but I have to ask, do you plan to use antifreeze or do you plan to run 100% distilled water?
I am running 100% distilled water with 2 bottles of green Hyper-lube coolant. The green looks prettier in the glass tube than the purple or pink.
 

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Discussion Starter #72
I do notice a little difference in pedal responsiveness though. Not much just a tad.
Just want to clarify - LACK of pedal responsiveness. It feels like there is a tiny bit of reduced pedal responsiveness with the 180 temps vs. the higher 190-210 temps.

I am searching online to see if there is a way to chip the ECU into thinking the normal operating temperature is 180. This way it will only run rich as it's heating up and save gas.
 

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I am running 100% distilled water with 2 bottles of green Hyper-lube coolant. The green looks prettier in the glass tube than the purple or pink.
The reason I asked is because 100% water is not recommended. A 50/50 mix of water and antifreeze concentrate provides corrosion protection. Antifreeze (good old Prestone, for example) is labeled "Antifreeze/Coolant" because in addition to lowering the freezing point it also raises the boiling point of the solution.

I am not familiar with Hy-Per Lube coolant, but the directions for the product at the company's web site clearly indicate that it is intended to be used in systems with antifreeze.
 

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The reason I asked is because 100% water is not recommended. A 50/50 mix of water and antifreeze concentrate provides corrosion protection. Antifreeze (good old Prestone, for example) is labeled "Antifreeze/Coolant" because in addition to lowering the freezing point it also raises the boiling point of the solution.

I am not familiar with Hy-Per Lube coolant, but the directions for the product at the company's web site clearly indicate that it is intended to be used in systems with antifreeze.

I read on the science forums distilled water transfers heat better than coolant. So I've been using it for about 7-8 years. I use Prestone Heavy Duty flush for any possible corrosion deposits. The coolant additives Royal Purple and Hyper Lube say they have corrosion protection. I forgot what Water Wetter Specs sheet said. Oh yea I could not get a clear answer if Water Wetter had corrosion protection so I stopped using it.

The Hyperlube website says "No-anti-freeze formula suitable for use on racetracks". I assumed they meant you could use it with distilled water. I figured 2 bottles (1/3 of a gallon) would suffice. When it gets below 32F during the winter (or if I camp in the mountains here) I usually add about 25-50% Peak green coolant. I have Peak Green in the system for for 2-3 months of the year. For the other 9-10 months 2 bottles of coolant and distilled water. The distilled water + coolant (water wetter, Royal Purple, or Hyper lube take your pick) result in cooler temps than 50% (or 100%) Antifreeze.

I don't think the Hyper-Lube cools better than Purple Ice. Purple Ice had a noticiable difference when used with distilled water. Hyper Lube's showing the same temps as distilled water alone. But it said it had better corrosion protection and I think neon green is prettier. My temps are in the 180's exactly as before so I'm happy enough to leave well enough alone. I saw other Land Rover owners that converted to an inline saying they got temps in the 170's but I see no reason for this as per Sierra it will make the engine run too rich.

The engines are based on a 1960's Buick design and back then people used 100% distilled water so I'm willing to chance it for lower engine temperatures. I've had no issues yet (knock on wood).

Right now I'm trying to see if there is a way to "chip" the ECU to stop running rich at 179. Perhaps someone in the UK you can mail your ECU to and they can tweak it to 179 instead of 195. It seems to be okay at 185 but am sensing anything less and it starts running rich.
 

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Discussion Starter #75
Temps at 183. Down to 177 tonight coming down the big bridge.

Does anyone have a way to stop the engine from injecting extra fuel at 179 ?
 

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In theory it's quite simple to trick the ECM to get higher coolant temp input than the real temperature of coolan cos the sensors are NTC so a variable resistor on the circuit can alter the sensor's resistance as to get what input you want but i'm not gonna eat my mind to calculate how much just cos you are too stubborn to run the engine below the normal operating temp which was assumed by the engine's builder... the simple and logical way is to fit a genuine thermostat and radiator as it was factory fitted and run it around 195 as it's normal or to find somebody who knows how to addapt the fuel injection map to the lower temps but that's quite unlikely

i fitted bigger radiator on mine cos i tow a heavy boat but otherwise it's useless to mess with the cooling system just like that
 

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Discussion Starter #77
In theory it's quite simple to trick the ECM to get higher coolant temp input than the real temperature of coolan cos the sensors are NTC so a variable resistor on the circuit can alter the sensor's resistance as to get what input you want but i'm not gonna eat my mind to calculate how much just cos you are too stubborn to run the engine below the normal operating temp which was assumed by the engine's builder... the simple and logical way is to fit a genuine thermostat and radiator as it was factory fitted and run it around 195 as it's normal or to find somebody who knows how to addapt the fuel injection map to the lower temps but that's quite unlikely

i fitted bigger radiator on mine cos i tow a heavy boat but otherwise it's useless to mess with the cooling system just like that
Operating temp was raised by LR engineers to conform with emissions laws. Prior to this Buick engines ran at a lower temperature. Yet nothing was done to the engine to compensate for the higher temperatures. Hence the head gasket problem. My Rover blew heads at 20k, 40k and 80k miles with stock temps.

According to most of the people on this forum, 180's temps prevent blown head gaskets. Now the main issue becomes MPG. 180's temperatures are ideal. So at this point Rover is burning extra fuel for no reason. Hence the solution is - tell it to stop burning extra fuel at 180 instead of 195.

I've contacted some chippers who don't seem to have an answer. So the solution is, modifying the temperature sensor to show 15 degrees higher than actual.

If I could just pay someone to do it I would. There has to be someone who knows hot to
 

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Operating temp was raised by LR engineers to conform with emissions laws. Prior to this Buick engines ran at a lower temperature.
Those Buick engines you mentioned were with electronic injection?...cos if not and they have carburator you can't compare them with any injection engine. The emissions can be controlled regardless of the ECT, IMO it's not about emissions laws but about laws of physics as less fuel is needed for combustion at higher temperature, that's why the EGR introduces hot gas into the chambers. No HG is supposed to blow at 195*C and if it does the problem is something else. If you just simply trick the ECM with higher input the engine will be powerless cos the real temperature in the chambers will be still low and tricking the ECM doesnt trick the laws of physics too so at that 180 real temperature the combustion will be inneficient with an amount fuel injected for 195 if you see what i mean
 
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