Land Rover and Range Rover Forum banner

21 - 40 of 62 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
Discussion Starter #21
Love the signature ArmyRover.
My Dad is a retired W4 CID Homicide investigator and my sister was with the 44th evac/Army medic, those words really hit really hit home for our family.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,855 Posts
Don't worry about that tray, tex. But I would incorporate some protection for the winch from any front end collisions. I built a tray similar to yours for my 12000 Warn on my DII. I used 1/2 inch plate for the base, and 3/8 plate for the front and sides. Then to attach to the frame rails, I used 4x4 L angle iron 3/8 thick. That coupled with 3 Grade 8.8, 3/8 bolts through each rail, and I've got no failures. I've pulled Dually's (chevy and ford) which were buried past there frame rails, and an F150 on 44 Swampers buried past the frame with it. Not one issue. It's ugly, burt built like a tank.

JC has some photos of it tucked away in his files. There's not a stronger tray out there made by anyone, even if it it the ugliest POS ever designed. LMAO! My only criticism is the 1 inch box for tubes. Too much chance of torsional flex, depending on your winch angle. I'd rather see 2x2x1/2 or 2x2 solid in it's place. Just my .02.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
Discussion Starter #23
Very fast answer to your input, I will look at the pics and need to review your recommendations.
I am on a conference call right now, though what you’re saying makes great sense. I am just having a hart time visualizing it right now. The engineer that works with me has not gotten back yet on the....I think he calls it shear stats of the 1" solid but he did say the same thing about torsion flex... here is the statement in the E-mail he sent:

As a rough and ready measure 500 lb-ft on a 3/4 inch piece of square stock
would equal 16000 lb at a 3/8 inch radius, and that is assuming no safety
margin, which would equate to a material able to withstand 43,000 lb per
square inch, as a rule of thumb plain MS works out as around 16 to 20 tons
per square inch.

I will provide more date later today, have to make the customer happy as you request all the time you bastard!
:)

John

Anthony
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
Discussion Starter #24
I posted this highlighted and can see that it is very hard to read. Here it is in livin color...sorry

As a rough and ready measure 500 lb-ft on a 3/4 inch piece of square stock
would equal 16000 lb at a 3/8 inch radius, and that is assuming no safety
margin, which would equate to a material able to withstand 43,000 lb per
square inch, as a rule of thumb plain MS works out as around 16 to 20 tons
per square inch.

I will provide more date later today, have to make the customer happy as you request all the time you bastard!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,198 Posts
If you can think of other ways to abuse the winch...
Not sure about the winch, others have covered that, but you demonstrated abusing your cable and a tree.
1. Never wrap your winch cable around something and then hook back to the cable. You'll damage the cable.
2. Never wrap a winch cable around a tree, it will cut in to the tree. Use a nylon "tree-saver" web strap.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
Discussion Starter #26
How much can I learn from this site in 1 day!!! Thanks antichrist...I will try to get the tree saver soon. A question about this....is the nylon rope that series 3 guy suggested the same thing or do I need to buy this additionally? If so where?

Anthony

One other question you have "74 Air Portable - The Antichrist (tag 6A666)" on your signature...please excuse my ignorance, is that a actual unit for portable air? I have seen some sites that advertise portable air and I was just wondering if this is one of them. I actually have portable air on my F350 build into the rear bumper but, it is only a resevior...no compression.
If this has nothing to do with this then I am sure I will be crucified accordingly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,855 Posts
OMG, LMAO! Newbie Alert. LOL!

An air portable: Late series IIa and Series III Land Rover 88 inch Short Wheel Base. Developed and designed specifically for military use. Official designation is something like : Truck, General service, 1/2 ton, air portable.
Developed to be narrow enough to drive into an Air Force transport, and light enough to be picked up bt UK MoD Medium duty helicopters of the time. They have narrower frame, narrower axles, and basically no flare to the front wings.

Oh lord, that was good.

BTW; I was going to give you some S#*! for the tree also, but figured you had taken enough heat already. Tree Saver is one of the best things you can keep in your truck. Real cheap off eBay.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,210 Posts
Sorry i hurt your feelings but i was trying to make a point, not a very good attempt but still an attempt.

First thing i saw when i saw your set up was how bad it was. That in its self is extremely dangerous if ever used for a real pull and i would hate for some one to come here and see that and think "hey, i can do that too!" and end up with some one in the ground because of it.

If you have ever seen a winch cable brake, or a tow hitch come off under load you know what i am talking about. Imagine that entire winch coming off under load.

Secondly, and this is something that isnt just your fault, i am not a fan of the "its only for looks" deal. I personally dont give a crap if its a roof rack, bead-lock "look" rims, or a winch. But thats my personal opinion and based solely on my inability to understand why people do things that dont make sense.
 

·
Reptile Expert
Joined
·
4,120 Posts
oh god. harbor freight is great for cheap little hand tools and random crap....but not a winch. i understand the concept of a budget build...but you could find a quality winch used to be on the safe side for you and your rover's sake.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,692 Posts
If you can think of other ways to abuse the winch...short of going off road let me know and I will try.
Even though lifting the front may look good, you are probably only putty around 2,000lb load on a 8000lb winch.
Dragging it along a dirt surface would not put that much extra force on it. You need to put it on a surface with good grip, like a sealed road, and put your foot on the brakes and stall the winch. that is, put the winch at its maximum load.
It is a bit hard to explain, but winching the vehicle from a mud hole, or up and over a rock, places a lot more pressure on the winch than lift the front off the ground.
But I come back to the point that you do not plan to take it off road and just want to recover from the snow, etc. For this purpose, it should be OK.
But if this is all you want it for, I would have designed it to be removable during the non-snow times of the year. That is, you can mount a square tow hitch to the front and mount the winch like a tow point. Leave the winch in the back of the car and only mount it when you need it.

It is all about getting what you need. It appears that you have done this. The knockers here are most likely looking for a winch for off-road use. I would not use what you have for this purpose.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
Discussion Starter #31
I just asked my Dad if he knew what air portable is (He does), He lives in Texas and my mom said he is still laughing.
How in the hell would I know that....are there any series 2 or 3's over here?!?!?! I worked so hard to deal with the asshole answers and sound reasonable but...that really Killed it all.

Even the wife is laughing.

I was talking to my Dad today and I told him one of the people I really liked the most on this subject was the "House guy" just keeps saying you are wrong but does not get into negative feedback no matter what. I really appreciate that.

I still have to stand by my decision this winch was a great purchase if for nothing more than the unbelievable amount of attention that it has drawn.

I have this really sick desire to see what it can really take....wieght...abuse...and in the end if it fails...which I would be surprised if it did not....what have I lost...I am trying to think how I can winch my F350 off the ground or something entertaining.

One thing is for sure I love hard hitting guys that tell what they think straight.

Gunny: I love your thought process...you don't even get what "show" is about! Thank God I am not in charge of any major incursions. It would look very much like a "military Action"
You know what the difference is between me an lets say a Marine is? My life never depended on equipment working. I get to call AAA when my winch fails.

Sad fact is that that idea has not changed for me.

I will continue to impress with pics and if anyone can think of something useful for a chinese winch please let me know, I'm always game for a new challenge.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,692 Posts
Tree Saver is one of the best things you can keep in your truck. Real cheap off eBay.
Everyone, including myself, is having a go at him for having a cheap chinese winch, then it is suggested that he buys the tree protector off eBay. I think it is more important to have a good quality tree trunk protector. The winch may pack up and stop working, but there is a good chance that such an incident would not be as dangerous as the tree trunk protector letting go.

I make sure that anything that can cause me harm is of reasonable quality. That is, winch, cable/rope, shackles, tree trunk protector, winch extension strap, snatch block, snatch strap, etc.

Tree trunk protectors are mainly there to protect the tree. So I make sure I use one on public lands. It looks like his photos were on private land, so it is up to him whether he wants to kill his tree or not. For what he was doing (lifting the front of the ground) is was probably better not to use the protector as the cable would provide a better grip on the tree.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,198 Posts
Tree trunk protectors are mainly there to protect the tree. So I make sure I use one on public lands. It looks like his photos were on private land, so it is up to him whether he wants to kill his tree or not. For what he was doing (lifting the front of the ground) is was probably better not to use the protector as the cable would provide a better grip on the tree.
Safety isn't something you practice only when it's needed. It has to be a habit you've developed so it becomes second nature, otherwise you'll forget some time when you really need it. A tree-saver strap is the same. Just "safety" for the tree. If you rig it properly it will provide plenty of grip.
Also, based on the winch, mount, cable laying, hooking the line back on itself, I'm guessing he's pretty clueless when it comes to winch safety. You know as well as I do how dangerous they can be.

As for only using for being stuck in the snow, I fully expect that someday before long he'll be stuck in something other than snow and say, "Hey, I've got a great 8k lb winch" and end up, at best, breaking something. It takes a lot of experience to know when stop and say, "No, my tools aren't capable of that." And he said the winch is for show. Based on that, and other comments, I'm guessing he would be reluctant to say, in a real stuck situation, that his winch/mount can't handle it. That wouldn't put on a very good show.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,692 Posts
If you rig it properly it will provide plenty of grip.
A tree trunk protector would just slide down the tree unless you looped it back through one of its eyes and connected the winch to the remaining eye. But this is not safe use of a tree truck protector.

I use a tree trunk protector 99% of the time. Sometimes it is not practical or I just can't be stuffed getting it out for a light winch. But then again I will also get out the chainsaw and cut down a tree or use the bull bar to knock it over if I consider it necessary.

As for only using for being stuck in the snow, I fully expect that someday before long he'll be stuck in something other than snow and say, "Hey, I've got a great 8k lb winch" and end up, at best, breaking something. It takes a lot of experience to know when stop and say, "No, my tools aren't capable of that." And he said the winch is for show. Based on that, and other comments, I'm guessing he would be reluctant to say, in a real stuck situation, that his winch/mount can't handle it. That wouldn't put on a very good show.
I am yet to see a winch fail in such a way that there is any significant risk. The risk is simply you don't get out of where ever you are stuck. The mounting is a different issue, but from the pictures I can't really tell whether it is safe or not.

In regard to knowing whether something is not capable of the job, sometimes you have to use what you've got and hope it works.

But I am not starting another debate with you as it goes nowhere.

Currently he has a winch that suits what he intends using it for and he is happy with it. I have also purchased a cheaper winch in the past (Warn Magnum) and know the false economy of buying cheap stuff as you end up throwing it in the bin. But I know a number of people who have cheap winches and are very happy as they are not serious off-roaders and may use the winch for the occasional light recovery.

I think he has learnt that he has to be careful about what he brags about on this forum. He also now knows what a air portal is, and I don't think his disco will be climbing anymore trees. He has taken on board all the criticism and appears to want to learn. We all had to learn somewhere, even though some refuse to.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,198 Posts
A tree trunk protector would just slide down the tree unless you looped it back through one of its eyes and connected the winch to the remaining eye. But this is not safe use of a tree truck protector.
I said, "if you rig it properly". What you described isn't what I would consider "properly". Find a rigger to show you.

I am yet to see a winch fail in such a way that there is any significant risk.
I was addressing his particular set-up. That includes the winch and mount. They should be considered as a unit. I've worked around winches of many types and sizes since the 70's and have seen them fail, including catastrophically. He obviously isn't aware of just how dangerous a winch can be. But many people who have them aren't.
I agree that we can't tell much about the mount from the photos.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
Discussion Starter #36
Hi Dad,
This is for you, probably the most modest man I know and yet still put up with my constant creativity (dangerous at times no doubt:) )

Thank everyone for all that I have learned on this site.

ArmyRover....Your generous request makes me think of the movie....Luke, I am your father turn to the dark side. Thank you and really am looking forward to talking more about it...I will E-mail you!

Now to the crazy Texas stuff...as Garth plays on the LR truck...we shall be free...!!

View attachment 17552

View attachment 17553

View attachment 17554

View attachment 17555

View attachment 17556

View attachment 17557

View attachment 17558

View attachment 17559

View attachment 17560

View attachment 17561

Such fun!

Peace out,
Anthony
 

·
Rover-Holic and Admin
Joined
·
7,895 Posts
bring your butt should be a good time
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,692 Posts
Hi Dad,
This is for you, probably the most modest man I know and yet still put up with my constant creativity (dangerous at times no doubt:) )

Thank everyone for all that I have learned on this site.

ArmyRover....Your generous request makes me think of the movie....Luke, I am your father turn to the dark side. Thank you and really am looking forward to talking more about it...I will E-mail you!

Now to the crazy Texas stuff...as Garth plays on the LR truck...we shall be free...!!

Such fun!

Peace out,
Anthony
You had to prove me wrong. That is, I thought that the disco would not be climbing anymore trees. You had to go and find a bigger tree. Your mad and it is the most stupid thing I have ever seen done to a Disco, but I got a good laugh out of it.

How did you get it back on the wheels?

Crazy Texans!!!

Can't wait for Antichrist's reply.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
101 Posts
Hi Dad,
This is for you, probably the most modest man I know and yet still put up with my constant creativity (dangerous at times no doubt:) )

Dear Anthony

Raising you as a child was a difficult time.
Your learning disabilities were never overcome ,and you continue to prove to me and the world that you will always be an idiot.
It scares me to think that my grandson is in your presence when you have your idiot outbreaks , I know that he thinks your an idiot as well as at times he has confided in me as to what a really dumb ass his dad is.
Well my son you were one dumb ass growing up and your a bigger dumbass now.
Please choose to do your dumbass stunts on your own as losing you would be no great loss to the world ,one less dumb ass is a good thing.

I’m embarrassed to have you as my son so please don’t refer to me as dad ever again.

Your the perfect poster child for

YOU JUST CANT FIX STUPID.
 
21 - 40 of 62 Posts
Top