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· Former LR tech, Albany NY
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been asked a serious question. Most of the enthusiasts here like the look of a raised Land Rover with all the fixings. they say that the LR3 cant compete with those same models. I disagree.

The LR3 was purposely built for off road. So it takes the thinking out of off road driving. But does it really.

when you are on a two hundred foot embankment about to go down with a raised disco you arent worried about steering out of the way. your worried about losing your foot on the brake. As it descends and you are worried you are going to slide too much one way.

but with the LR3 it takes the worry out. If any of you havent taken one out on an off road course here how it works.

first off you want to go down the hill. engage the four wheel low. no herky jerky movements. put it in neutral and flip the switch. Second, turn the dial to the correct terrain. then watch as the HD lite come on. finally when you get to the point of no return let off the gas and brake and go. Thats right the abs, and throttle will activate constantly and keep you at a safe speed going down the hill. All you do is steer. It puts the safety in your hands and allows you to concentrate on really driving. So does that mean you will get stuck in the mud ruts. NO guarantee. thats what a wiinch is for.

The LR3 doesnt take the fun of out driving it puts the safety of offroad driiving into the computers hands and allows the driver to enjoy his experience. Y

You dont have to be a fully qualified off road driver and have a vehicle raised to really enjoy the off road experience.

plus to surpass a LR3 you need to raise the previous disco up and get training and get bigger tires to really enjoy all types of terrain. Yet you can read the owners manual and test drive one and away you go.

So has the Lr3 ruined its heritage. I think not. I think its surpassed it. Its taken its heritage to the next level.

and lets not forget. the wheel spin the damage to the earth. So we know who is definitly treadly lightly.
 

· 94 Defender 90
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beezel said:
The LR3 doesnt take the fun of out driving it puts the safety of offroad driiving into the computers hands and allows the driver to enjoy his experience.
That's the problem with it. Too many computers. I don't know about you, but I don't want to put that into the hands of a computer. I want some control. ABS is as far as it needs to go.

Yes, I know the computer does a good job, but I still don't feel like there's any control. Just look how often just the ABS fails on cars. What if the ABS fails and you don't even have your foot on the pedal?
 

· Former LR tech, Albany NY
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2,437 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
remember abs goes down regardless of one sensor or even one poor ground.

And as far as computers there is only one extra module that is added for the system.

all the others are preexisting. The engine is fly by wire, the airbags are apart of the Slabs. and the transmission has its own. The terrain response module only is needed for off roading.

Because the vehicle is now updated to the CAN bus system that both Ford and Jaguar has been using since 2002 it just seems a bit scary. but in reality its easier to diagnose and maintain the vehicle.

Granted ABS fault can happen with any vehicle equipped with it but you will not loose braking power. It would be no different then your vehicle if it lost ABS.

Besides if your going down the hill and dont put your foot above the brake then thats just stupid.

Trust me we have more problems with them starting and having bad tanks then actual AbS and airbag problems.
 

· Member
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A couple things-

I dont know about the LR3.. but have you ever used the HDC on a disco2? WAY too fast for my comfort... I like to crawl down steep embankments.

Also.. offroading by push button I think is a bad idea.. it takes a certain level of skill away from the driver that the driver should have. The driver should be able to feel their way around obstacles w/ an equal measure of breaking, throttle and steering..

The LR3 wasn't built purposely for offroading, it was built purposely for on-roading, it has some features so the novice on-road drivers can feel secure when they are driving on the sand in nantucket :)

All in all though, time will tell. I'm waiting for the mods for the LR3 to come out.. ARB already released their bumper.. need some suspension mods and some sliders and then we'll see how well it can handle.
 

· 94 Defender 90
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beezel said:
finally when you get to the point of no return let off the gas and brake and go. Thats right the abs, and throttle will activate constantly and keep you at a safe speed going down the hill. All you do is steer.
beezel said:
Besides if your going down the hill and dont put your foot above the brake then thats just stupid.
I don't want you to get the wrong idea though. The LR3 is obviously great off-road. I've seen pictures of them doing some pretty incredible things (my mom won't take hers off the pavement :mad: ), but it's good for the wrong reason. Off-road vehicles need mechanical bits. I don't want to push a button for low range. I want to pull a lever and feel metal moving beneath me. I want to hear the gears not feel isolated from everything going on beneath me.
 

· Registered
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590 Posts
Yes.
It sucks.

Im pissed at Land Rover now because it looks like I will never want a new version of what I have now. A Series II Disco.

If I won a LR3 on the Price is right, I would just sell it. I wouldnt want anyone mistaking my ride for a raised Honda Element, which is about as ghetto as a raised Vega on 44's.

I dont care what the features are, it lags.
 

· These pretzels are making me thirsty
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317 Posts
I can't comment too much on the LR heritage as I have only had a Land Rover for a little while, but I am starting to like the new one. I think they have done what they had to to continue with the LR name. From what I have read LR hasn't done so well for a while. So, they build a new one that appeals to the more mainstream crowd, just business right? Anyway, I have come to like the look of the LR3, the electronic stuff sounds fun, I just hope it all works well, since this is the car I will be buying in 7 or 8 years cause thats when I will be able to afford it :D
 

· Former LR tech, Albany NY
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2,437 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Imagine for a moment the land rover engineers came to your house. They hook up your LR to measure everything you do whilst off roading. Then they take all that info and they make a formula that deals with all of the driving you do. Now imagine they add airbags instead of springs. It will rise to the same height as you enjoy offroad but still lowers down to a regular height so you can get out with ease and grace.

now imagine if I take you out partying and then throw you in your LR and tel you to go down the that same terrain. Guess what your dead. YOu wont react as quick. Or what if you got into an arguement because you were lost. Stress can lead to mistakes as well.

Now imagine if they tested the best driver and the best equipment and used that info and at all time the driver is the same. NO stress or lack of concentration.

Now imagine using that formula and never having to worry that the comp is tired or messed up. It will react the same way all the time.

All you have to do is to understand the mechanics of off roading and what the vehicle an do. You dont have to be in excellent condition and not stressed to know you can get over the terrain.
 

· Former LR tech, Albany NY
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2,437 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
what would you do if they had raised airbags.

would that make it accessible.

and come on over twenty inches of articulation is pretty good.

exactly how far are the articulations of the larger raised rovers.

has anyone measured those to see how far they really go.
 

· MG
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714 Posts
Ok, I gotta chip in on this one.

I've been reading this debate for a while now, and I don't mean just here in LRO, but in many other circles as well.

Just to put it into a wider context, this reminds me of the knock-down-drag-out fight that ensued in the aviation community when fly-by-wire systems first started appearing. Of course, initially everyone used the "safety of flight" issue, but that didn't hold up - it is statistically safer to fly in an all electronic aircraft than in the push-pull rod kind.

Sure, as pilots we trained with the "gadgets" off, to hone our skills and build some more safety into our missions if there ever was a breakdown, but in the "hot and heavy", we all wished that there were more gadgets to turn on so that we could concentrate on what really needed out attention: the "outside" (obstacles, rain, other aircraft, etc.)

Eventually, those who couldn't live with the electronics got RIFed (Reduction In Force - the same thing as getting "right sized" in the corporate world). Nowadays, as passengers, you fly safer because of these advances, and pilots everwhere live longer and more productively.

Yeah, I hear the concern that we can't fix it McGiver-style anymore, but just think what the horse-whisperer thought when Ford rolled out his first Model T! We all need to upgrade our skills - from tire iron to soldering iron (inclusive, not exclusive).

I also think that it's important to point out that the pilots that I would trust most when under duress, are those who have mastered flight without electronics and have applied that knowledge to squeezing even more performance out of the gadgets.

Thus, I will keep learning how to perform in my rought iron Disco I, so that when I climb into an Intel inside LR4, I can do some really wild stuff. I will embrace the new, with a foundation in the tried and true.
 

· Former LR tech, Albany NY
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2,437 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thankyou.

In my profession as a tech those who didnt want to learn the new electronics also fell by the wayside. Trust me if you cant accurately interpret data from a computer you definitely arent going to diagnose very good.
 

· 94 Defender 90
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1,004 Posts
I am a big techie as well. Computers have their place. They're certainly awesome when on the road. All that stability control and such does a great job, but once you get off the road, I would rather be without.

I'll say it again. The LR3 is a great vehicle. But to answer you're original question, yes I think it is deviating from the original Land Rover heritage.

As long as they leave the defender as is (or atleast as close as possible) all will be well. We already know it can be done. Look at the Jeep Wrangler.
 

· Former LR tech, Albany NY
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2,437 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
dont remind me about the jeep. LR screwed up and yanked the defender. It could have stayed and thrived.

Instead we get the freelander.

not that I am complaining about the freelander. It gives us alot of work. engine, tranny, axles, heater coress, steering racks. imobilization modules.

and thats just on the 02s. Every time a freelander gets to that magical number at 72k it gets a for sale sign.
 

· Registered
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beezel said:
Imagine for a moment the land rover engineers came to your house. They hook up your LR to measure everything you do whilst off roading. Then they take all that info and they make a formula that deals with all of the driving you do. Now imagine they add airbags instead of springs. It will rise to the same height as you enjoy offroad but still lowers down to a regular height so you can get out with ease and grace.

now imagine if I take you out partying and then throw you in your LR and tel you to go down the that same terrain. Guess what your dead. YOu wont react as quick. Or what if you got into an arguement because you were lost. Stress can lead to mistakes as well.

Now imagine if they tested the best driver and the best equipment and used that info and at all time the driver is the same. NO stress or lack of concentration.

Now imagine using that formula and never having to worry that the comp is tired or messed up. It will react the same way all the time.

All you have to do is to understand the mechanics of off roading and what the vehicle an do. You dont have to be in excellent condition and not stressed to know you can get over the terrain.
are you condoning drunk driving? as much as everybody talks about alcohol on these boards, i can guarantee you, nobody risks their investments of time(something LR3 people are not investing) and money driving under the influence. so, stupid hypothetical situation, although i see your point. there are times where you cant physically handle driving a conventional truck offroad.

face it, you're not gonna sell the LR3 to this market. off-roading is a hobby, and hobbies are supposed to be enjoyed. the people on this board like working on their trucks as much as using them. don't wanna be an ass, but none of the hardcore offroaders are gonna buy one. it is an excellent vehicle for the people that don't enjoy the work part of it, and i wouldnt say it's destroyed LR's heritage. i personally think they coudl have done a better job styling them and picking colors(i saw a gold one today and it looked like sin), but it fits in with the RR. we just need to have a disco in there too.
 

· Member
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beezel said:
what would you do if they had raised airbags.
I'd replace them with coil-overs because I'd be weary of the airbags popping or getting a leak. And I'd be weary that if I got my compressor wet, it wouldn't blow up the airbags, and i wouldn't be able to get back out over those rocks I had to climb to get in.
 

· Premium Member
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The LR3 I don't believe it has ruined the heritage, but it has changed it a bit... I believe the LR3 is a good "family" wheeler. The LR3 is great for a family that is not going to go on anything rough or daring, it's a sunday cruise in the dirt type of LR....I like them, not as much as disco's, RR's, Series, D 90/100, etc...But for a family with a camper that wants to tour the national parks it's great..
 

· Member
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LR3 didn't ruin the heritage.........................BMW/FORD did. The company is still around, thats a good thing.. But it's shifted from rugged offroaders to trendy urban grocery getters. Same thing GM did with Hummer. When it comes down to it.. its always about the almighty buck, so I can't say I blame them.. but at the same time, I think its changed, a lot.
 

· Former LR tech, Albany NY
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2,437 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
if they get really old then perhaps. Most bags go from age not mileage.

the rubber breaks. but water in the compressor can be avoided. You can keep the compressor clean of debris.

and water doesnt get into compressors. Basically the filter gets clogged with water and makes its way into the system and the dryer doesnt do its job. Trus me there is always water in the air bags. Its the dryers job to reduce the amount.

Older range rovers wont have problems unless your serious submerge the entire compressor. The Discoveries with air ride dont get water in them unless there is the water is submerged above teh rear tail light. The filter is located there. But water does get into the filter and if it is cold enough it will freeze and blow the compressor. Unless theres too much water and it overwheelms the dryer.
 
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