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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Looking for opinions on the advantage of a stud kit when doing cylinder heads as opposed to new bolts.
I need to do my 2002 and 2004 disc 2 in the next few months
Both pretty stock every day drivers.
Head stud kits will cost me over $300 bucks Canadian / vehicle.
Is there really an advantage over bolts?
Please share your thoughts:serious
 

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There are hundreds of threads on this topic. Use the "search" function. If you can't find everything that you ever needed to know on the subject from this forum, go register at landroverforums.com if you haven't done so already. I know for a fact that a ton of info on cylinder head bolts exists there. Hell, just google. It's going to link you here or there, either way
 

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Head stud kits will cost me over $300 bucks Canadian / vehicle.
You can't do anything about exchange rate or vendors not shipping there. What price quotes are you getting for bolts?

US prices under $200 for the newer stud kit shopping around and Lucky8 is supposed to be under $150 with forum deal if they're willing to ship your way.

I went with a studs versus $40-80 bolts because wary of using torque to angle and the hopeful ability to reuse them if HG needed again down the road. The other added benefit is they can be re-torqued after the initial installation and run-in if you subscribe to using old methods.

If cost an issue I'd say go with bolts if you have a straight edge to check block and heads or have them checked prior to install and you should be good to go.

......
 

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I say go with the studs. The reason being that when you tighten the bolts, there is a unequal pull on the threads and a slight grind. With studs, you won't have to worry about stretching the bolts and later head gasket failure. Also, studs will be fully seated in the block and when the nut is tighten on top, the threads will be loaded evenly.


Mike Russell

Age 19

2003 discovery se

Lover of Rovers
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
There are hundreds of threads on this topic. Use the "search" function. If you can't find everything that you ever needed to know on the subject from this forum, go register at landroverforums.com if you haven't done so already. I know for a fact that a ton of info on cylinder head bolts exists there. Hell, just google. It's going to link you here or there, either way
Yes I know there are "hundreds " of threads and YES I know how to use the search. You try sifting through the "hundreds...... Not much fun .
I even know why studs are better.
I am not looking to be schooled on the topic.

I was hoping for personal experience success or failure, from others as to whether it is really worthwhile to spend 4 times as much.
 

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4 times as much

That's about it.

2 out of 3 replies trying to help, what else do you expect? Suggest that since doing two HG jobs do one of each, treat them the same and then down the road give your real-world expert opinion.

......
 

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Hi special agent
if you are just looking for opinions - I can help but bear in mind Ive not done studs on a landy engine. Talking that you understand the differences and the losses incurred when torquing bolts vs nuts on studs - the discrepancies are only really relevant when talking about HC engines and most of the rumor surrounds bolts and failed cylinder walls and head gaskets have been relegated to the trash.

As you well know studs are really of use these days for high compression engines - anything from 14:1 comp and up. I use studs on my tuned lotus engine and a HC 15:1 mercedes 450 engine. In both case - much like the landy - they are a bitch to install because the engines originally in a lower compression form had head bolts and trying to line up gaskets and heads while inserting studs is a PITA and the head cannot be fitted back on the engine in the series 2 landy when you use studs. If you put in studs the engine has to come out every time you need to do head work or you have to slot the studs and remove them which can be a real bitch if the stud seizes.
For multiple jags, mercedes and several rover engines that came with bolts - I always replace with bolts, just much easier and as we are talking at the most 10 or 12:1 compression the head bolts are by far adequate for the task.
Take the value of the thoughts for what you paid for them :grin
cheers
Barri
 

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For what it is worth -

July of 2014 I undertook the head gasket replacement on our 2003 D2 4.6.

We have other cars, so I was not needing to hurry and could take my time.
I read many of the threads regarding the use of studs over the TTY Bolts.

Here in SE Michigan - we have a business - D&D Fabrications, which specializes in the Buick based Aluminum V8.
Upon the recommendation of Mark - the present owner - I bought the ARP stud set. His quote was "In this shop, the only place you see head bolts is in the trash".

What my experience seemed to demonstrate is that if you wish to use the studs - consider using the ARP set that has been more recently produced for the 4.6 block.
The older set of studs - for the Buick era blocks does not provide a long enough length of threaded stud relative to the larger bore of the newer 4.6 block.

What occurred with my engine was the block cracked behind #4 cylinder causing coolant leakage between the block and liner after 5 months of use. This seems common enough with the 4.6 where the shorter stud set is used.

Weather this was a coincidence or poor wrenching on my part is anybody's guess.
I had seen other postings stating that this was a real concern - but choose to use the older/shorter studs baser upon Mark's recommendation and the price difference between the 2 sets.

So - in closing, I don't know what I would do if faced with this task again.
I would probably use the TTY Bolts - but I would not use the shorter ARP stud set.

JK
 

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Yes I know there are "hundreds " of threads and YES I know how to use the search. You try sifting through the "hundreds...... Not much fun .
I even know why studs are better.
I am not looking to be schooled on the topic.

I was hoping for personal experience success or failure, from others as to whether it is really worthwhile to spend 4 times as much.
Well as you can see, if you ask for opinions you will get opposite ends of the spectrum. How in Gods name does that help you if one person said that studs cracked his block, another says bolts go in the trash, another says studs are for high-compression, and so on for infinity. I think you should go back to school and I don't mean that as an insult, and find the latest research supporting both and use your own judgement. Or since you are so adamant about getting direct responses to the same question asked 10,000 times, you might as well tally the "for" vs "against" and go with that which scores the most votes...oh wait, it's tied :grin
 

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For what it is worth -

July of 2014 I undertook the head gasket replacement on our 2003 D2 4.6.

We have other cars, so I was not needing to hurry and could take my time.
I read many of the threads regarding the use of studs over the TTY Bolts.

Here in SE Michigan - we have a business - D&D Fabrications, which specializes in the Buick based Aluminum V8.
Upon the recommendation of Mark - the present owner - I bought the ARP stud set. His quote was "In this shop, the only place you see head bolts is in the trash".

What my experience seemed to demonstrate is that if you wish to use the studs - consider using the ARP set that has been more recently produced for the 4.6 block.
The older set of studs - for the Buick era blocks does not provide a long enough length of threaded stud relative to the larger bore of the newer 4.6 block.

What occurred with my engine was the block cracked behind #4 cylinder causing coolant leakage between the block and liner after 5 months of use. This seems common enough with the 4.6 where the shorter stud set is used.

Weather this was a coincidence or poor wrenching on my part is anybody's guess.
I had seen other postings stating that this was a real concern - but choose to use the older/shorter studs baser upon Mark's recommendation and the price difference between the 2 sets.

So - in closing, I don't know what I would do if faced with this task again.
I would probably use the TTY Bolts - but I would not use the shorter ARP stud set.

JK
Wow. That's the worst. Did you scrap the block? What came of the vehicle?
 

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I completed this job this past Friday. I spoke to several friends and a few other individuals familiar with Discovery stud installation. There were no issues encountered, put the heads on the centering dowels installed in the block, then install the ARP studs, I used a ball end "T" handle allen wrench, when they bottomed out, they were left as is. To ensure uniformity of stud depth, I measured the protruding head from the base of the head bolt boss to the tip of the stud, they were nearly identical, a thread or less difference, this is no endurance, race, high compression engine, that difference is negligible.
The TTY bolts are good in theory but poor in performance considering the expansion/contraction rates of the dis-similar metals in these engines; IMO if you're doing the job do it once, if you have to do it again, simply unbolt the nut, insert your allen into the tip of the ARP stud and extract it, if you utilize the ARP provided torque lube there should not be any seize issues, down the road.
Cleaning the entire thread bore can not be overstressed, the head bolt bore must be clean and debris free in order to seat the studs properly/evenly, this took more time than actually installing the studs, washers and nuts. DO NOT re-tap them, use a thread chaser if necessary, understand that as you chase the threads you will have to clean the bores of the loose crap, a tap removes necessary thread material, get the correct tool; a 7.62 NATO bore brush works well for cleaning, twist it in and out.
BTW gurunutkins, what in the world do you do with a 15:1 M116/M117 V8?

Doug
 
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