[Eniam17]

Can anyone help me find shocks that will work well with RTE 2" springs on my Classic? I am not trying to open this up into a debate about how much to lift, pros/cons of lifting, etc. I am putting in 2" RTE springs but am looking for advice as to shocks that would work well. I will be running 32" MT tires and looking for maximum off-road performance/ariculation/downtravel.

Thanks

 

[p76rangie]

Can anyone help me find shocks that will work well with RTE 2" springs on my Classic? I am not trying to open this up into a debate about how much to lift, pros/cons of lifting, etc. I am putting in 2" RTE springs but am looking for advice as to shocks that would work well. I will be running 32" MT tires and looking for maximum off-road performance/ariculation/downtravel.

Thanks

As the extended length of the springs will be close to standard, standard shocks will be the best.
As your axles will not move anywhere near as much as they use to with standard springs, you want shocks that will not suffer with rapid small movements.

 

[Eniam17]

When you say the extended length of the springs will be close to standard but then later say axle will not move anywhere near as much; you are confusing me. Do you mean axle won't move as frequently? I don't see how I would lose flex given that spring extension is almost same as stock, as long as the shocks allow for enough travel. I may also run relocation cones depending on what I do for a shock setup.

And can you throw a brand of shocks out there that you like w/ the RTE springs?

 

[p76rangie]

When you say the extended length of the springs will be close to standard but then later say axle will not move anywhere near as much; you are confusing me. Do you mean axle won't move as frequently? I don't see how I would lose flex given that spring extension is almost same as stock, as long as the shocks allow for enough travel. I may also run relocation cones depending on what I do for a shock setup.

And can you throw a brand of shocks out there that you like w/ the RTE springs?

Spring lifts are not obtained by the spring being 2 inches longer. They may be slightly longer than stock, some are actually shorter. They obtain the lift by stiffening the spring so they do not compress as much. A stock front spring has a compression rate of only around 130lb per inch. So if you have a 1,000lb on that spring it will compress 7.7 inches. To obtain a 2inch lift you only want it to compress 5.7 inches so you put in 175lb per inch springs. It is that simple.

So for every 130lb transferred from one side of the vehicle to the other through articulation, the new springs are only going to move 3/4 inch compared to the old ones of 1 inch. So they move less, you have less articulation, and you now have more wear and heat building up in a smaller portion of the shock.

It is not rocket science, only maths.

Dislocation cones are only any good if you want to compete on an articulation ramp. They provide no benefit off-road. Again the concept is simple. If the spring is dislocated there is no weight on that wheel. No weight means no traction. So the wheel and the articulation cones are doing nothing to help you get where you want to go. I know that people will argue that there is still the weight of the wheel pressing down on the ground, but such a small weight is not going to aide you much.

Spring lifts have their place in attempting to centre up the axle up the axle travel and allowing full movement from the bump stop to the full extension of the spring. But an off the shelf "spring lift" will never do this.

 

[p76rangie]

You are saying you want to run 32 inch tyres. I have just finished painting the front guards on my Rangie ute. Before I painted them I wanted to check the clearance of the tyres to the guards. When running 32's on my 93 (with 2 inch body lift and 1.25inch above standard clearance spring lift) I hit a large hole once and the rubber bushes in my front trailing arms compressed enough for the tyres to take out the rear bottom of my front guards. So I wanted to make sure I had sufficient clearance on the ute so it would not happened again.

The photos below are 32 inch tyres (235/85/16) on a standard front Rangie guard when the wheel is fully articulated up. Not much room left and the Ute has a 2 inch body lift. I did not think it was enough clearance so I modified the guard to give an extra 1/2 inch clearance and both the front and rear of the wheel arch.

Imagine what your clearance will be without the body lift.

I put 32's on my wife's disco for an off road trip and her suspension and body are relatively stock. But I made sure I went over any bumps slowly and avoided anything that would require it to articulate too much.

 

[Eniam17]

Thank you for all this info. I understand what you are saying , I guess I should re-phrase my question. How are people who are adding 2" of lift via suspension and not body lift maintaining or increasing articulation and flex?

From what you are saying it sounds like you are of the opinion i would be better off doing body lift and staying with stock spec springs/shocks. Is that accurate or am I misunderstanding your message?

I have witnessed some of my friends' rovers first hand with great articulation and ability get power to the ground using relocation cones so I have been of the opinion they could make sense at times. I am not arguing; only explaining why I had considered that.
Thanks for your help


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[p76rangie]

Thank you for all this info. I understand what you are saying , I guess I should re-phrase my question. How are people who are adding 2" of lift via suspension and not body lift maintaining or increasing articulation and flex?

From what you are saying it sounds like you are of the opinion i would be better off doing body lift and staying with stock spec springs/shocks. Is that accurate or am I misunderstanding your message?

I have witnessed some of my friends' rovers first hand with great articulation and ability get power to the ground using relocation cones so I have been of the opinion they could make sense at times. I am not arguing; only explaining why I had considered that.
Thanks for your help


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As I thought I explained, a suspension lift cannot increase or maintain your articulation. It is not physically possible.

But if you are asking whether putting in heavier springs will improve your articulation, the answer depends on how much extra weight you have in the vehicle. For example, with a steel bullbar, winch, and dual batteries, I had a lot of extra weight in the front. I put in springs that many here would class as a 3 inch lift, but it only raised the suspension height around 1 inch from standard. That is, the extra strength of the springs were mainly needed to bring the thing back up to standard height. So standard for a Rangie Classic is 133lb inch springs. If I used 170 lb springs, in theory it is a 2 inch lift. But if I added 264lb to the front (132lb per wheel), it would only have raised the front 1 inch over standard.

I actually run Land Rover red springs in the front which are 180lb per inch springs and are 1.1inches longer than standard and only ended up having a suspension height around 1 inch higher than standard. In theory those springs would have lifted a standard vehicle over 3 inches, but the extra weight reduced the increase to 1 inch. Many people here would say I have a 3 inch spring lift, but in reality it is only 1 inch. And yes it has improved my articulation as I have roughly 3 inches in upward movement and 3 inches downward from its sitting position. But such a lift does not allow any bigger tyres than a standard vehicle because when I am at the top of my articulation I am just hitting the bump stops, which is exactly the same point as standard suspension will reach.

I bet those guys that you saw with dislocation cones had diff locks as well. That is, they were only getting drive from the compressed tyre, not the one dislocated.

I am not at all saying that you should stay with stock springs. All I am saying is that the only way a spring can allow bigger tyres to be fitted is by restricting upward movement of the wheel. Which in turn reduces articulation. 31 inch tyres are fine without a body lift. 32 inch will fit if you do not do serious stuff off-road. If you want full use of the suspension and are not running 32 inch tyres that are wider than 235mm, a 2 inch body lift is useful. If you are running larger than 32 inch, you need to start cutting your guards.

 

[p76rangie]

This lot are often quoted on sites giving LR spring specs as they are well known around the world for their aftermarket spring range. They make body lifts, spring lifts, long travel suspension kits, etc, etc. So they have no interest in trying to push one method over another. So please read this section of their website where they explain what you need to do to fit what tyres. Tyre Sizes and Mods Required

 

[Eniam17]

Thank you for the link I read it. How do you feel about use of front shock towers that are lower than stock and /or rear mounts that allow for 2" lower mount any pros or cons you can comment on?


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[p76rangie]

Thank you for the link I read it. How do you feel about use of front shock towers that are lower than stock and /or rear mounts that allow for 2" lower mount any pros or cons you can comment on?

What you need to do is to make sure that your shocks cannot fully close up from wheel travel. If they can fully close you will start breaking shocks, mounts, etc, when the force of the wheel coming up runs out of travel.

The bump stops on the car are there to stop the axle coming up too far.

So if you are keeping standard shock lengths and drop the top mounts 2 inches, then you need to drop the bump stops 2 inches.

If you are getting shocks 2 inches longer it means that the closed length of the shocks will be at least 1 inch further out. So you will need to either raise the top shock mounts by 1 inch or drop the bump stops by 1 inch.

The only 2 inch longer shock made for the rear of the Rangie are produced by Koni and they are very pricey. So if you are looking at longer shocks you are most likely looking at a bracket to convert the bottom mount from a pin to an eye. As this effectively raises the bottom mounting point by at least 1 inch, you will need to drop the bump stops by the same amount.

 

[Eniam17]

10-4, thanks for all your help; I appreciate all the time you have taken to give me a lot of info. I can see this will be a work in progress and I will likely have to go through a few different setups before I find what really works for me.