Land Rover and Range Rover Forum banner

121 - 140 of 167 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
990 Posts
As I shut the door with my head hung in shame...
i mean, they have their place i guess. i'm just not a fan. now, if you want an exo, then by all means, please do.

sorry it's not a rover, but bear with me. the same concept applies to any vehicle. here is an inner/exo cage with it outside in all the right places, and none that it's not. i'm including a a before just exo cage shot before he decided he wanted something mo' betta. great compromise for not wanting an open-top rig. it's a chopped 4runner.

ugly:



sweet:



as you can see, the cage from from the outside in the back, and moves to the interior in the front. sealed off from the elements getting into the cab (has normal doors for on-road), and the cage doobles as a sweet roofrack/funcitonal in saving the roof in a rollover.) all tied to the frame, of course.

just food for thought.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,065 Posts
An exo cage is a good option if you don't want to have any interior room taken up with the tubing. It also saves the body of the vehicle somewhat.

The main disadvantage from a functional point of view (other than making the vehicle physically larger) is that it must tie into the frame and cross braced to work correctly. This means in order to be 'safe' sections of the cage must penetrate the body anyway, but this can be accomplished while still minimizing the intrusion into the cabin.

As michaels points out the #1 best option is to remove the body and build yourself a full tube buggy, and while they rule in nice weather you have to be a special kind of sadist to enjoy it the rest of the time.

A interior/exterior cage is common place on 110 and 90s to improve their naff roll over protection whilst maximizing what little of the interior room there is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
990 Posts
As michaels points out the #1 best option is to remove the body and build yourself a full tube buggy, and while they rule in nice weather you have to be a special kind of sadist to enjoy it the rest of the time.
as your twisting my words a bit. i said either an inner cage, inner/exo, or chop top/cage/soft top would be the best options, as it still seals you off form the elements.

if you want a full tube buggy but don't want the weather in, just do like this guy. while it's not the prettiest thing, it does everything you could possibly want in any weather.



even has windshield wipers:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,065 Posts
Not trying to twist your words that was just the impression I got from your post. I stand corrected.

That thing is not really what I would call a all weather vehicle. I especially like the scissors and pegs to hold the door up so you can get in or out. While it certainly looks like a very capable off road er given the choice between that and my relatively cozy RRC, I think I will be staying with the green oval.

Ever spent any time in a Series or Defender with a canvas tilt? They have windscreen wipers too, and they are [email protected]#$ing freezing in the cold and dust traps in the heat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
518 Posts
There's a bigger chance of a piston going through the block in an aluminum block than an iron block. Ask me how i know this :-D!!

I don't think a stock LS1 would take much abuse in a disco. But there's a reason GM used iron blocks in their trucks/suv's.
I think the primary reason was that they did not need the weight saving or the expense of an aluminum block in their trucks not so much that they were less reliable in a heavy duty application. Race engines see enormous amounts of stress and they are aluminum... Yes a rod will go through a aluminum block easier, but will not create the condition that caused the rod to break in the first place. Main bearing failure due to defect or excessive heat buildup/constant high speed will though. BMW M engines are probably the most stressed high strung high compression street engines you will find and they do not have rod failures or any failures related to using an aluminum block. WE are talking apples and oranges here, but the basics of aluminum vs cast iron durability are still applicable. I think I'd rather have an aluminum V8 in the Rover just to save on the weight since the original is aluminum and a smaller displacement. Most of us add winch bumpers and other weight so why add to it if you don't have to? The only exception is a diesel ofcourse.

K, after getting caught up on the rest of the thread all I can say is DAMN! I shoulda made popcorn first... Jeez guys! Anyway, considering the sources and the opinions it's all good... I agree with the purist point of view. Look at any old car and originality is always worth more for a reason. In the Lotus case the Toyota engine was installed by Lotus for the NA market so that is as it came and is original. Lotus builds dynamic chassis, but Mr. Chapman never had luck with engines and actually I believe Lotus started out as a kit car for track use like Elva et... Porsche started this way also in a small garage using VW sourced parts. Some of you with the strong opinions may call the 356 junk because it is not wholly Porsche, but the 356 was the car with the humble beginnings that is now the iconic sports car. Land Rover started the same way. Limited resources after the war and a bunch of thrown together parts.
All I am saying is that the original manufacturers used what they had and made it work not unlike those of us who have had a need and filled it by tinkering and modifying. You have a right to your opinion and original is best from a purity point of view, but don't put down others who have the desire and the ability to try to improve what is already there or make something work that is broken... This spirit right here is what created Land Rover to begin with and people who think this way and aren't afraid to experiment improve things for everyone by finding solutions to problems or inventing new things that we usually take for granted every day. I would totally go for a TD5 in both of my Discos before I'd throw an American V8 just because the swap is easier and for the same price or less I get much better mileage. If I had a complete low mileage V8 and all the stuff to make the swap like this guy I might do that just to try it if the original engine was bad... Economics and what is on hand can make the difference too. Jeepers throw all kinds of engines in their rigs, Hot rodders too. A Discovery will probably never be a hot collectible and since most of us do not own like new low mileage Discos to cocoon n a barn for 40 years I say do what you want with it if it works for you. There is a guy on the Porsche forum who put a 5.7 in a 944 and the forum did not flame him despite the Porsche guys typically being probably some of the worst purists of the lot. They wanted to know how it worked out. That positive attitude and support gets things done. constructive criticism gets things done. Experience and knowledge gets things done. Ignorance just gets in the way...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
990 Posts
Ever spent any time in a Series or Defender with a canvas tilt? They have windscreen wipers too, and they are [email protected]# freezing in the cold and dust traps in the heat.

we're talking completely one-off custom built professional job here with REAL quality control (as in only one built, so every detail is there) compared to a vehicle mass produced by the british, who aren't known for their abilities to stop leaks. :lol: lol. you can hardly compared the weather proofing of 40 year old series to a brand new, formed fitted professional MODERM canvas top fab shop.

just sayin'.

hell. tons of dudes don't let weather stop them. just look at this crazy fucker. no way i'd be out in that wet of weather with no windscreen or windows at all.


this photo also shows an ugly exo. ICK!


:beer:

cheers all,
Michael.
 

·
MISSING SOUTH LONDON.
Joined
·
3,433 Posts
I think the primary reason was that they did not need the weight saving or the expense of an aluminum block in their trucks not so much that they were less reliable in a heavy duty application. Race engines see enormous amounts of stress and they are aluminum... Yes a rod will go through a aluminum block easier, but will not create the condition that caused the rod to break in the first place. Main bearing failure due to defect or excessive heat buildup/constant high speed will though. BMW M engines are probably the most stressed high strung high compression street engines you will find and they do not have rod failures or any failures related to using an aluminum block. WE are talking apples and oranges here, but the basics of aluminum vs cast iron durability are still applicable. I think I'd rather have an aluminum V8 in the Rover just to save on the weight since the original is aluminum and a smaller displacement. Most of us add winch bumpers and other weight so why add to it if you don't have to? The only exception is a diesel ofcourse.

K, after getting caught up on the rest of the thread all I can say is DAMN! I shoulda made popcorn first... Jeez guys! Anyway, considering the sources and the opinions it's all good... I agree with the purist point of view. Look at any old car and originality is always worth more for a reason. In the Lotus case the Toyota engine was installed by Lotus for the NA market so that is as it came and is original. Lotus builds dynamic chassis, but Mr. Chapman never had luck with engines and actually I believe Lotus started out as a kit car for track use like Elva et... Porsche started this way also in a small garage using VW sourced parts. Some of you with the strong opinions may call the 356 junk because it is not wholly Porsche, but the 356 was the car with the humble beginnings that is now the iconic sports car. Land Rover started the same way. Limited resources after the war and a bunch of thrown together parts.
All I am saying is that the original manufacturers used what they had and made it work not unlike those of us who have had a need and filled it by tinkering and modifying. You have a right to your opinion and original is best from a purity point of view, but don't put down others who have the desire and the ability to try to improve what is already there or make something work that is broken... This spirit right here is what created Land Rover to begin with and people who think this way and aren't afraid to experiment improve things for everyone by finding solutions to problems or inventing new things that we usually take for granted every day. I would totally go for a TD5 in both of my Discos before I'd throw an American V8 just because the swap is easier and for the same price or less I get much better mileage. If I had a complete low mileage V8 and all the stuff to make the swap like this guy I might do that just to try it if the original engine was bad... Economics and what is on hand can make the difference too. Jeepers throw all kinds of engines in their rigs, Hot rodders too. A Discovery will probably never be a hot collectible and since most of us do not own like new low mileage Discos to cocoon n a barn for 40 years I say do what you want with it if it works for you. There is a guy on the Porsche forum who put a 5.7 in a 944 and the forum did not flame him despite the Porsche guys typically being probably some of the worst purists of the lot. They wanted to know how it worked out. That positive attitude and support gets things done. constructive criticism gets things done. Experience and knowledge gets things done. Ignorance just gets in the way...


"would totally go for a TD5 in both of my Discos before I'd throw an American V8 just because the swap is easier"

That has to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Easy swap? wtf? You would honestly choose the most unreliable and exspensive BMW engine over a 200 or 300 tdi that was designed by Land Rover for your Disco? You think you wouldn't have to change your entire wiring harness over? Your ECU?There's a reason why Land Rover still uses the 300 tdi in it's ROTW builds.
Not trying to crap on your parade man but a Td5 is a poison motor. It's never a good sign when guy's are immediately upon purchasing a defender ripping the td5's out and tossing in an older 300.

I see where your going with the "constructive comment's" comment. I had a strong opinion and nothing will ever change that. As far as experience and knowlede goes I have plenty of that. Feel free to read any of the Land Rover Mag articles written about my trucks and my Global adventures to find that out. What bugs me about guy's that **** talk people with opinions,like yourself,is that because I have an opinion that you don't agree with it automaticly makes it ignorant or stupid. Dude...I've done Africa top to Bottom 3 times,russia,Iceland,most of Europe and Sri Lanka in Land Rovers..my opinion is my own and based on personal exsperience.How about yours?? I am a purest and nothing is wrong with that.

The forums are better place because of people that have differing opinions. Otherwise it would be as bland as Obama.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
990 Posts
not to mention the TD5 is FLY-BY-WIRE. who the **** wants to retro fit all that ****? stick to a 200 or 300tdi, or isuzu if you want a diesel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,065 Posts
Just thought you should know the TD5 is a Land Rover designed engine and not BMW sourced. This is a common misconception.

Nor is the TD5 unreliable. it is actually a far superior unit compared to a 200 or 300 TDI. It's one fault is the well documented oil in the wiring loom trick that has been seized upon by the technophobic Land Rover owners that remember the bad old LUCAS days and blown out of all proportion.

It has been superseded by the Ford Puma unit now due to Land Rover being formerly owned by Ford.


A number of well respected overland specialists run TD5 Defenders.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,065 Posts
we're talking completely one-off custom built professional job here with REAL quality control (as in only one built, so every detail is there) compared to a vehicle mass produced by the british, who aren't known for their abilities to stop leaks. :lol: lol. you can hardly compared the weather proofing of 40 year old series to a brand new, formed fitted professional MODERM canvas top fab shop.

just sayin'.

hell. tons of dudes don't let weather stop them. just look at this crazy fucker. no way i'd be out in that wet of weather with no windscreen or windows at all.


this photo also shows an ugly exo. ICK!


:beer:

cheers all,
Michael.
I let weather stop me. I live where the weather can kill you and not just make life uncomfortable. +40C in the summer and down to -40C and in the winter, and that is without the wind chill.

But I see your point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
990 Posts
I let weather stop me. I live where the weather can kill you and not just make life uncomfortable. +40C in the summer and down to -40C and in the winter, and that is without the wind chill.

But I see your point.
well then a tube buggy isn't going to be your choice anyways due to the climate you live in. a hard top works better for all seasons for you. in so doing, i'd do an interior cage only.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
518 Posts
That has to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Easy swap? wtf? You would honestly choose the most unreliable and exspensive BMW engine over a 200 or 300 tdi that was designed by Land Rover for your Disco? You think you wouldn't have to change your entire wiring harness over? Your ECU?There's a reason why Land Rover still uses the 300 tdi in it's ROTW builds.
Not trying to crap on your parade man but a Td5 is a poison motor. It's never a good sign when guy's are immediately upon purchasing a defender ripping the td5's out and tossing in an older 300.

I see where your going with the "constructive comment's" comment. I had a strong opinion and nothing will ever change that. As far as experience and knowlede goes I have plenty of that. Feel free to read any of the Land Rover Mag articles written about my trucks and my Global adventures to find that out. What bugs me about guy's that **** talk people with opinions,like yourself,is that because I have an opinion that you don't agree with it automaticly makes it ignorant or stupid. Dude...I've done Africa top to Bottom 3 times,russia,Iceland,most of Europe and Sri Lanka in Land Rovers..my opinion is my own and based on personal exsperience.How about yours?? I am a purest and nothing is wrong with that.

The forums are better place because of people that have differing opinions. Otherwise it would be as bland as Obama.[/QUOTE]

I think it's absolutely great that you have been fortunate enough to have all of these experiences and worldly travels. You should be everyone's hero and source of excellent information, however, you undermine this with your constant bragging and the belittling of others... Yes, differences of opinion field contemplation and lead to understanding and favorable solutions to common problems. If everyone had the same opinion, no changes would ever be made and everything would be bland as you state. In saying that, why to you also close your mind to anyone else's ideas and then beat them down for even thinking it... Sharing your experience and helping others with their trucks is invaluable, excellent, kudos, you've got the experience to do great things here so I don't know why so many posts turn into fights... I realize text is completely different than words in person and can be easily taken the wrong way, but still, too much name calling and the threads get lost.

I was using the TD5 as an example as it was on my mind at the time. The 200 and 300 series, 300 being a little more refined, is much easier to retrofit you are correct. Far less complications. There is a reason the military versions did not get the TD5. I have a friend who brought a cargo container full of 200tdi engines here last fall and he installed one in his RRC last month. Runs great, only about 18-22mpg though. Not the improvement I was expecting to see.
 
121 - 140 of 167 Posts
Top