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Hi all.

99 Disco TD5 Auto

Just wondering about K & N filters.

My mechanic recommends not to use one due to the fact the oil can upset the MAF sensor, but I hear of people using them without issues.


What do you recommend and has any one had issues with K & N filters?

BTW get my new chip today ( yea ha!! )

Thanks
 

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Got my K&N Air filter.....

After the K&N air filter install,using the stock airbox,I noted better acelleration and more go in the gas pedal. This is my 2nd K&N install for 2 autos.

Maybe your auto mechanic should stop breathing through a straw, huh ??

Adam in NYC NY USA:drive:

BTW, which chip did you install, and how much was it? How is the car doing now?
 

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I helped a friend put a supercharger on his Toyota T-100. When we pulled his intake manifold off the inside was coated with a very fine layer of grit. It was almost like super fine silica sand. Needless to say he was using a K&N filter. It was the stock replacement flat panel type. He is very meticulous with what he does to his truck and was shocked to see the grit in his intake. He now uses the Toyota filters. After seeing that I pulled the K&N out of my Rover. I use the factory paper replacement filters. I could hold mine up to a light see small holes in it. Maybe thats why if flows more air. I've heard other people say they were designed for racing and airflow was more important than engine life because the engines were rebuilt after a season of racing anyway. Personally a few HP vs. engine longevity, I'd rather have an engine that will last longer.
Check this out.

http://mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/2/
 

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By the way...........

RoverAsh said:
I helped a friend put a supercharger on his Toyota T-100. When we pulled his intake manifold off the inside was coated with a very fine layer of grit. It was almost like super fine silica sand. Needless to say he was using a K&N filter. It was the stock replacement flat panel type. He is very meticulous with what he does to his truck and was shocked to see the grit in his intake. He now uses the Toyota filters. After seeing that I pulled the K&N out of my Rover. I use the factory paper replacement filters. I could hold mine up to a light see small holes in it. Maybe thats why if flows more air. I've heard other people say they were designed for racing and airflow was more important than engine life because the engines were rebuilt after a season of racing anyway. Personally a few HP vs. engine longevity, I'd rather have an engine that will last longer.
Check this out.

http://mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/2/
Maybe you should also include this from the URL above:

disclaimer:
mkiv.com is not responsible for any negligence in installation or inaccuracies of the procedures.
use at your own risk!
 

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about my last post and url....

I ALWAYS take information from somewhere like that URL with a grain of salt. I always test any and all products before I commit to them. I don't swallow whole any dogma using fancy graphics.

For example, When you purchase a air filter,or any product that will directly impact you, do you examine the interior of the box and the packaging prior to install?

Think about it.

Stock air filters arrive without plastic protection. Ever notice pieces of cardboard and paper inside? If you don't clean those filters, guess where that goes. I have had to blow new paper filters with compressed air because of additional manufacturing artifacts.

How about those other air filters? :dunno:

Next visit at your favorite auto store, take a look. All air filters come in unsealed cardboard boxes with no shrink-wrap. The actual K & N filter comes in a sealed plastic bag,precleaned and preoiled. AFC comes either in bulk (no box) or in open boxes and their glue used to join the filter to the meal and plastic parts fails in a hot engine compartment 6 to 8 months after install. They (AFC)were only designed to be at the end of a cold air intake,on the outside of the engine compartment, yet AFC sells short stacks that plug right up to the intake.

How well did your 'friend' clean the airtake/plenum prior to installation? When you do a fuel system cleaning, you spray cleaner right down the intake and plenum. Sounds like there was no prior cleaning. You said he put on the supercharger. In a professional installation, the installer would have taken the time to inspect and clean all parts prior to the install. Personally, on other vehicles, I have found a few surprises, including dry leaves and a spiderweb inside intakes after the filter.

Instead of spreading misinformation and creating fear uncertainity and doubt, why don't you ask your friend to take specimens of the foreign material and have it analysed by an impartial party. He will be surprised by what he discovers. If he brought his problem to K&N, I will bet they will very interested, since it is their premier product. They also would want to clear their name.

I am not a employee of K & N or LandRover. I am however a LandRover owner and first of all a true believer of the scientific method. I don't believe that jumping to untested conclusions are proper. We do that enough here in the United States and are now paying for it elsewhere in the world.
 

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Re: Your questions

URdiscovery said:
How much do they really help gas mileage? Also, how much do they cost/are they tough to install?
Matt
Only as tough as changing your air filter. Try to buy online as the prices for the 1996-1999 LR Disco I air filter will be cheaper. In NYC, they cost about 69-74 American dollars retail (PepBoys and RS Strauss) vs. 38 dollars on eBay (HowellAutomotive was my seller).

Performance: Like going from 87 to 93 gas or higher. You feel more power and you get more accelearation. A little better on the gas bill, about $10 to $20 less a week.

Now, I am thinking about new headers and new larger stainless stell exhaust, if I can afford it.
 

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Adam,
He installed the K&N just after he bought the truck. So it was sealed, pre-oiled, and cleaned. He had run it for about 30,000 miles, cleaned and serviced it periodically. He noticed some dust in the intake tube when he went to service the filter before. He wiped it clean, serviced the filter and made sure everything was tight. Unless his truck came with all of the grime in the intake then it must have come through the filter. Before installing the super charger we thouroghly cleaned the outside of the engine. When we pulled the air cleaner box out we noticed all of the grit inside the intake tube leading to the manifold. We then pulled the intake off the intake and the intake runners were also covered with the grit. It's a good thing we didn't spray a cleaner down the intake tube because it would have washed all of the grit right into the engine. After replacing the K&N he never had that problem again. Maybe he had a bad filter from the beginning but I'm just stating what I witnessed first hand and my engine is too valuable and too expensive to replace or rebuild for a few gains in HP. About the air filter test article I should have gone to their home page. If the testers did everything the same then it's some food for thought. To each their own :)
 

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i forgot what the URL was but read an article about K&N's. Some engineer guy that works on a fleet of trucks did a independant study over a course of an year. the conclusion was even though the K&N's did improve the air flow resulting in more HP's, it would also let in very fine particles of dirt/ grit etc where was the paper would catch it. wish i still had that article. will dig around and see if i can find it...
take care
sam
foiund it.......
If I wrote "subjective" I meant "objective".. I was
>responsible for evaluating re-usable air filters
>for a major construction/mining company that had
>hundreds of vehicles ranging from large earthmovers
>to pick-up trucks and salesmen's cars. This study
>was embarked upon due to the fact that we were
>spending upwards of $30,000 a MONTH on paper air
>filters. Using them one time then throwing them
>away.. I inititated the study in that I was convinced
>that a K&N type filter or oiled foam would save us
>many dollars per year in filter savings, man hour savings,
>and of course engines as these would filter
>dirt better than paper. (yes, I had read the K&N ads and was
>a believer)
>Representative test units were chosen to give us a
>broad spectrum from cars right through large front
>end loaders. With each unit we had a long history
>of oil analysis records so that changes would be
>trackable.
>Unfortunately, for me, every single unit having
>alternative re-usable air cleaners showed an immediate
>large jump in silicon (dirt) levels with corresponding
>major increases in wear metals. In one extreme
>case, a unit with a primary and secondary air cleaner,
>the secondary (small paper element) clogged
>before even one day's test run could be completed.
>This particular unit had a Cummins V-12 engine
>that had paper/paper one one bank and K&N/paper on
>the other bank; two completely independent
>induction systems. The conditions were EXACTLY
>duplicated for each bank yet the K&N allowed so
>much dirt to pass through that the small filter became
>clogged before lunch. The same outcome occured
>with oiled foams on this unit.
>>We discontinued the tests on the large pieces almost
>immediately but continued with service trucks,
>formen's vehicles, and my own company car. Analysis
>results continued showing markedly increased
>wear rates for all the vehicles, mine included.
>Test concluded, switched back to paper/glass and all
>vehicles showed reduction back to near original levels
>of both wear metals and dirt. I continued with
>the K&N on my company car out of stubborness and at
>85,000 miles the Chevy 305 V-8 wheezed its
>last breath. The top end was sanded badly; bottom
>end was just fine. End of test.
>I must stress that EVERYONE involved in this test
>was hoping that alternative filters would work as
>everyone was sick about pulling out a perfectly good
>$85 air cleaner and throwing 4 of them away
>each week per machine...
>So, I strongly suggest that depending upon an
>individual's long term plan for their vehicles they simply
>run an oil analysis at least once to see that the
>K&N or whatever alternative air filter is indeed working
>IN THAT APPLICATION... It depends on a person's priorities.
>If you want performance then indeed the K&N is the
>way to go but at what cost???
>And no, I do not work for a paper or glass air
>filter manufacturing company nor do I have any affiliation
>with anything directly or indirectly that could
>benefit George Morrison as a result..

Here's the info I have on air filter performance. Tests were done using
SAE J726C Test Method 5-best --> 1-worst

Oiled foam Paper Oil Bath Oiled
Gauze
(AMSOIL, UNI) (K&N)

Large particle efficiency 5 5 5 4
Small particle efficiency 5 4 1 2
Airflow capacity 5 2 3 5
Dust holding capacity 4 2 5 2
Load up characteristic 4 1 5 1
Backfire characteristic 3 2 5 3
Cleanability 4 1 4 3

As you can see, K&Ns are great for airflow, which is what they were
designed for. Their original application was on racing engines, where
airflow is important and ultimate engine life was of little consern.
They
are not as good at filtering as paper or oiled foam types.



Sorry that was so long but I thought it was important!


Paul
'93 xtra-cab
 

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Continuing the investigation re:Reliability in K & N air filters....

Hi there from Adam in NYC :drive:

This thread is a provocative one for me. I really want to know if these filters would last and I found (via Google) one website that shows both sides of the coin.

For your viewing pleasure:

Pro:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=15

BTW, there is a letter from K & N defending their product and giving some info and history :

http://www.thedieselstop.com/contents/getitems.php3?K&N Letter to The Editor

and here is a good thread about K&N and silica levels:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000303

and Con:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000289

I will continue my research with my own filter and will let you know how I fare. I, however, as the story goes, am from Missouri via New York... you have to show me.
 
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