[DickFox]

Hey Everyone
I just got back from a great few days away camping over at Stradebroke Island, just of the South Queensland Coast. It was a great weekend apart from one thing, sorry 2 things 1)- I no longer have reverse gear and 2) I had never realised just how annoying one of my mates is. He almost drove me up the wall!!! As we're driving along the beach he was forever asking "whats that noise?" and commenting "geez, I dont like the sound of that......I think one of your bearings is going to shatter" ....."theres that noise again, or is that the diff''...."your engine seems to be running a bit rougher...have you checked this or that.....it looks like you've got an oil leak" I was like, "its a bloody old land rover, ofcourse it leaks oil, it's not going to blow up........its been ok so far.....just chill out" and I would turn up the music. I tell you, it got on my nerves, and than to have reverse go on me, he was like"i knew something was up with your box" But anyway.....apart from all that, a geat few days.

I asked for some advice a few months ago as to why it kept jumping out out of reverse, and I was told I needed a rebuild, but I have put it off as long as possible. So I'm up for a rebuild now. Whats the best way to go about this. Should I do the transfer box aswell? Any ideas as to how much it wil cost? The gear box has a feiry Overdrive aswell. Does this complicates things? Am I better off just taking it to a specialists. The cross member in the chassis is removable, so that should save some time and effort I hope. Also, there is only one bolt on each side holding the member in place, is this sufficient? Once again, that mate was sure it needed at least 3 or 4, and that he wouldn't be suprised it I ended up shearing through the bolts.

Anyway, guys, Will keep you updated as to how it going, and whether that mate is still alive......he actually wants to come and help me rebuild the box......
Dick

 

[Snagger]

You're far better off doing it yourself. Specialists in the UK typically charge £3-400 for a recon main box, but if you have a lot of damaged shafts, gears or synchro hubs, the parts alone cost this much, so they clearly make their money by turning out scrap. It's not unheard of for them to nick the good components from a box and replace them with worn parts. There are some good companies, but they're few and far between and cost far more.

The OD is separate, and unless it's playing up, I'd leave it alone. Just take it off and leave to one side while you're working on the rest. Have a close look at the clutch sleeve splines though, as they're very fine and do wear.

www.legs.co.uk sell overhaul kits for a little under £100. These include all the bearings, seals, gaskets, shims, bushes and synchro cones for the main box, and the quality seemed fine when I rebuilt mine this year. They also stock all the other bits you might need.

You need to partly dismantle the transfer box to strip the main box. The output shafts and bearings are usually OK. The intermediate cluster bushes and bearings would best be replaced, especially as the cluster comes out during the strip down anyway. The bearings are one size (2 of), but the 2 thrust bushes come in different thicknesses, so you'd need to order the right set (may be marked on the old ones, otherwise use feeler guages to work out what thickness you need).

Wholesome, oily fun that will ensure you have a perfect transmission in a few of days work (including removal and re-installation), for a fraction of the price of a properly professionally rebuilt unit.

 

[Lawnmower]

Good luck with it!
I have finally bought a 2nd hand gear box to replace mine, will collect i this weekend.

Only thing is its a series 2 gearbox o repace the series 3 gear box installed in my supposadly sries 2a.

Difference between them other than 1st and 2nd gears, is hat I believe the bell housing fitings are different.

Anyone done a retro fit on a series 3 mlndy?

 

[Lawnmower]

Sorry, my spelling/typing is awful.

 

[Moeras]

With that spelling I thought you were Scottish

 

[DickFox]

I have just looked in the trading post and have found a guy who is selling bits and pieces of landies and he has 2 gear boxes. He tells me one of them is off a IIA 6cyl model. from what you have just said lawnmower, could it be a lot more difficult than I thought? Will this fit straight onto my SIII 6 Cyl? or will I have to have some modifications. He said he will give my the 6 cyl engine too. He advertised it for $200, (Aust) is this ok?

 

[Snagger]

You're always better off rebuilding your own. You know that it will fit, your clutch will mate up correctly, and you'll know that it has been done properly.

The hard work is in removing and refitting the box, which you'l have to do anyway. Stripping and rebuilding is simple, so long as you have a manual (Haynes or better), and you're methodical. It'll take a day if you have the parts ready. www.legs.co.uk sell overhaul kits mail order for less than £100, comprising all the main box bearings, bushes, shims, seals, gaskets and synchro cones. They stock all the major bits, so they can send them straight out if you find any damaged components like shafts, gears or synchro hubs.

The transfer box is likely to be in good condition as it deals with less torque and has heavier components, but it would be worth reassembling the intermediate cluster (removed to separate the main and transfer boxes) with new roller bearings and thrust bushes.

The likely total cost is under £200, unless you're unlucky, and is a far safer bet than a second hand box of unknown condition and history.

 

[Lawnmower]

Hey dickfox, if $200 dollars = £100 sterling then that looks pretty good. Over here recon gearboxes go for £300 and you have to part exchange your old box too.
I guess parts are rarer over your way, so a load of old bits for your 6cylinder engine lumped in i probably pretty good.

My landy was sold to me as a series 2A with a Series 3 gear box, although i suspect it may have been a series 3 with a series 3 box.

If the first case then with my soon to be aquired series 2a gearbox (£10) will fit ok, if the latter then I will be in the same boat as you.

(btw series 2 box = stronger gears, series 111 box = smoother gears.
I think there is a change in the gearing to)

 

[Lawnmower]

My Haynes manual (diesel) says:

Series II and IIa models;
Up to Gearbox suffix B
Top...........1:1
Third.........1.377:1
Second......2.043:1
First..........2.996:1
Reverse.....2.547:1

From Gearbox suffix C onwards
Top...........1:1
Third.........1.50:1
Second......2.22:1
First..........3.60:1
Reverse.....3.02:1

Gear box series III
Top...........1:1
Third.........1.50:1
Second......2.22:1
First..........3.68:1
Reverse.....3.887:1

The gearing in the transfer box also changes.....

 

[Lawnmower]

I also have the Haynes Land Rover Series I, II, and III Restoration Manual.

It says that:
The gear box essentially remined the same from 1948 to 1970, with a beffing up in 1961. The series iii gear box has a larger diameter clutch and 4 gear syncromesh.

It also has a section on fitting a series III gearbox to a series II/IIa, and says:
Try and test drive your replacement gear box.
The main problem stems from he fact that the Series II/IIa and III clutch slave cylinder, operating mechanism and clutch componants are incompatible with one another. Bell housings on the two types of gear box are different to accomodate these different clutches, although you can easily fit a series II/IIa bellhousing to a series III gearbox . What you cannot do is to transfer the series III first motion shaft, which fits into the bellhousing end plate, into the series II/IIa bell housing because the oil sealing arrangemen in the back of the bell housing is different between the two diferent models. Moreover the gear on the back of the first motion shaft and the prmary gear that engages it have different numbers of teeth betwen series II/IIa and III gearboxes.

 

[DickFox]

Thanks for all that guys. Much helpful. By hell lawnmower, you've certainly got some info! I plan to just take my gear box off in the next few days and have a look at hte inners of it. If the reverse gear is buggered, it will cost $100 to replace it Plus another $400 for all the bearings and seals. So i am still a bit up in the air as to what to do. I was thinking i would go and see what this guy has in parts and see if I could get the gear box cheaper with a bit of other junk, cause as the saying goes.....better off having it and not needing it, than needing it and not having it!!!!. Will see how I go. Should be fun.
Dick

 

[bhodisatva]

Don't forget that the series II box has the clutch slave cylinder on the opposite side to that of a III ie the series III box has the clutch slave cylinder mounted to the gearbox on the left hand side of the bell housing (looking from a forward facing position) and the series II should be on the right hand side.

 

[Lawnmower]

Apparantly there are other books too, the big green bible?,
but airing your thoughts on here seems to be a good way of seeing if stuff might work - ie people who have done it themselves at home without a full workshop in real conditions and time restraints. Manuals tend to be based on 1 strip down of 1 model of the vehicle, and what the author thinks is obvious and so not needed in the book is vital info for someone who knows very little about the subject.

That sounds a lot for a reverse gear (if i got my exchange rate correct), try ebay, or salvage one from a donor gear box. Anyone noticed how donor vehicles seem to be far cheaper than the individual parts?

Check out Snaggers link for some parts sourcing, or thee are others about- Craddocks, or Paddocks.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Snagger]

Gears and shafts are very expensive if you buy GEN PARTS, but less than half the price if you buy BRITPART. Many Britpart components are old Gen Parts' unused stock bought wholesale and re-packed, while the newly manufactured items are made to exactly the same spec as the originals, or better. In essence, you end up paying £30-40 extra for a LR logoed cardboard box containing a part identical in every respect to one from Britpart. That might help when dealing with suppliers.

Be warned though; while some pattern part manufacturers do fabricate items to original spec, others make poor quality replacements. Be careful to buy reputable parts. I had trouble with gearbox pattern parts from a Cardiff based company, which were only resolved by buying elsewhere.

 

[Lawnmower]

Picked up my 2nd hand gear box today, only cost me a tenner.
Tommorow I will try and clear even more crap out of my garage so I can actually work on the thing. Figure I will take it to bits first, and poke around inside.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4506026147&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT
And if it all goes wrong, then hey, I'll still have the gearbox thats in my landy and it didn't cost me much to get!

 

[DickFox]

I just took apart the gearbox on the week end. I havent had much time to do a good inspection of the bearings etc but the source of all the problems is definately reverse, it has about half the teeth it is ment to have. So looks like I have to get a new one of them. Over hear is Oz, i usually get all my parts from a place called British Offroad, but I think I had better shop around for a cheaper price. Also, when I I spoke to the guy there, he said the price depends on what suffix the box is. I have had a look on the box, but I'll be damned if I can see any letters. Where do I find out what suffix it is?

Yeh I have a copy of the green bible, I would have been lost with out it, and another good thing about it, I will have a pretty good idea as to where ev erything will go back, unlike when i usually take things apart.

Thanks for the help everyone.

Also I am going to buy a spare LR 6 cyl engine for $50, with all the biots and pieces still on it like the starter motor, dist etc. pretty cheaqp I reckon.

 

[Lawnmower]

If its just one part you need to replace, then nice one!

I found a number on mine, its located on the transfer box, on the right hand side when looking forward, not sure if this is the right number though, as it has no letter suffix.

In case you still want to fit a series ii gear box, the latest issue of LandRover World magazine came today, and in the Q+A section, is posed a very similar query....

Answer...
" - A series II box will fit but from memory you will need the matching clutch cover (is this the bell housing?) to get the correct clerance between the release mechanism and the release bearing....(SIC)...The series IIa transfer box is fine for the job if it is in good condition.

 

[DickFox]

I found the suffix letter I think, mine's ans 'A'. it is on the top cover that covers the selectors. I had taken the cover off so no bloody wonder I couldn't find it anywhere.

So I probably could have just swapped the gearboxes over with out too much worry. Atleast I now know what condition mine is in now.

 

[Snagger]

Clutch cover is a term used in place of "clutch pressure plate", and refers to the assembly that bolts onto the rear face of the flywheel, comprising of a steel ring that contacts the rear side of the clutch friction lining, pressure springs (coil or diaphragm) and the pressed casing.

 

[DickFox]

Hey guys,
I have just finished rebuilding my gear box. I put it back in on the weekend. I have only taken it for a small test drive, it seemed ok. But does reverse usually make a bit of noise? It is just the normal noise reverse on vehicles make but just seems extra loud. Thanks fopr all the help, it was quite a task,and bloody whitworth nuts and bolts...... Just one more question, does any oil go in the lowrange box thingy???? I know that sounds really dumb, but I can't see where you cna get it in ore anything.
Cheers,
Dick