[scoobymick]

Hello one and all,
I'm a Land Rover technician based in the UK,i originally found this site when i was searching the internet for anyone who had experienced running probs with TD5's.I know this is abit of a cheek but if anyone has any suggestions i would welcome them.The fault is a hesitation/holding back at 2k rpm at very light throttle,40mph 4th gear.I have done some 350 miles (roadtesting) in this car and it is getting worse.No electronic faults stored.I have substituted everything i can think of from ecu to turbo,i am currently fitting a new head as directed by LR technical but i'm unconvinced this will make any difference.I am stumped and so are they,any ideas?!

 

[SimonArmstrong]

I severly doubt that its the head causing that!

Does the vehicle generally run alrite? I.e at other times, does it run smoothly, is the idle smooth?

It could still be an electrical fault, but it is probably mechanical

As you well know, there isnt really any diagnosis you can do on a TD5 fuel system, well not the high pressure side anyway

Have you tried replacing the low pressure pump? or do these engines have a mechanical fuel life pump, it could also be at fault

Substitution is really the only method of finding out if it is a pump or injector problem. Working in an LR dealership, surely you should have access to plenty of parts/ other vehicles with which you could swap components?

HTH

 

[scoobymick]

I severly doubt that its the head causing that!

Does the vehicle generally run alrite? I.e at other times, does it run smoothly, is the idle smooth?

It could still be an electrical fault, but it is probably mechanical

As you well know, there isnt really any diagnosis you can do on a TD5 fuel system, well not the high pressure side anyway

Have you tried replacing the low pressure pump? or do these engines have a mechanical fuel life pump, it could also be at fault

Substitution is really the only method of finding out if it is a pump or injector problem. Working in an LR dealership, surely you should have access to plenty of parts/ other vehicles with which you could swap components?

HTH

I severely doubt it as well,LR theory is combustion gasses bleeding into fuel gallery which to be fair has happened on other vehicles.The problem with this is the fuel pressure to the head is a constant 5.5 bar and the return is a constant 4 bar.I nicked an '04 sales car and ripped it to bits over a one week period!! So far i have spent,wait for it............190 (warranty) working hours on it!!!!!!!!
Boy am i having fun!! Up to now i have subbed:- 3 ecu's;turbo;turbo modulator;associated pipes;turbo vac unit;ambient air sensor;air flow meter;manifold pressure sensor;injectors;driver demand switch;in tank fuel pump;filter and housing.Plus too many fuel,wiring checks etc to mention!! I now know all the help desk staff so well i'm thinking of inviting them for Christmas!!!! I was kinda hoping someone somewhere in the world would say "i had that" DOH!

 

[SimonArmstrong]

erm....erm....erm....erm....erm....

thats the type of problem that would drive me bloody mad. Done that sort of thing before, was on a skoda, 3 days with 2 of us working on the car, turned out to be a dirty connection in one of the main plugs - i was ready to cry!

What milage is on the motor?

What about something to do with the timing? Either that or something deeper inside the engine....

Chain driven, arent they? But still, how could that effect it at only that time

ARGH the best of luck with it mate, if i can be of any assistance, let me know

P.S EGR valve?

simon

 

[scoobymick]

erm....erm....erm....erm....erm....

thats the type of problem that would drive me bloody mad. Done that sort of thing before, was on a skoda, 3 days with 2 of us working on the car, turned out to be a dirty connection in one of the main plugs - i was ready to cry!

What milage is on the motor?

What about something to do with the timing? Either that or something deeper inside the engine....

Chain driven, arent they? But still, how could that effect it at only that time

ARGH the best of luck with it mate, if i can be of any assistance, let me know

P.S EGR valve?

simon

Thanks for trying,i disconnected the egr vac and blocked the pipe with a 2p!
Just been reading about your VM, i don't know too much about them but one of the techs i work with used to work on them whenever they came in,if he has any suggestions i'll let you know

 

[SimonArmstrong]

Thanks Mick, much appreciated

Ill have another think bout your problem, and get back to you if i come up with anything

simon

 

[SimonArmstrong]

Mick - ive thought, and thought, and thought about this! and theres only one thing i can think of

How about putting in a chipped ECU? Due to something inside the engine, there could be a flat spot at this particular point that an ECU upgrage could solve? I take it there are no LandRover technical bullitens on ECU reprograming due to this problem, or have you already tried them?! I wouldnt be supprised if you had!

I know, i know, this is covering up the problem, and its no gaurentee that it will solve anything, but you seem to have tried everything else!

simon

 

[scoobymick]

Simon,it was a good thought but i have downloaded two different software tunes to two ecu's,the original one and a virgin one.I have also fitted one from an older model,apparently the tune is 'softer' and can mask running problems but still the same,unfortunately LR won't authorize chipped ecu's.
I finished off fitting the new head this morning and you'll never guess what?!.......Road tested it and the fault re-appeared after 17 miles,continued until i got back to work,25 miles total and it was back to how it was Friday!Helpdesk have now authorized a Technical Manager to come have a look with a view to returning it for them to fix......HOORAY!!! I don't like admiting defeat,but better sanity than victory!!
I spoke to my mate at work about your car and from what i told him he agrees that rings probably u/s.
ps. if i ever get to hear what LR eventually find i'll let you know,unless it makes me look like a twat!
Mick

 

[SimonArmstrong]

Somehow i can see this vehicle ending up uncured/ or with a new engine!

I believe it has to be a mechanical fault, nothing electrical could cause that. Its just working out what! If you dont want to tell the outcome on the forum, my email is in my profile i believe! i would be very intrested in finding out whats causing it!

Thanks for asking your friend, its much appreciated. I have now now been told from several sources that the rings have more than likely broken up... but that dosent account for the other 4 or so problems!

Though, if the fault on your motor didnt reappear for 17 miles...does that mean that something could be "bedding in" as the motor heats up? Its probably just a coincidence but it could be a possibility?

thanks mick
simon :bgreen:

 

[Yeti]

Have you checked the throttle assembly being fly by wire there could be a duff spot on the potentiometer track that maybe doesn't show up in other gears ?

 

[scoobymick]

Have you checked the throttle assembly being fly by wire there could be a duff spot on the potentiometer track that maybe doesn't show up in other gears ?

HI, yes unfortunately i subbed the throttle demand fairly early on thinking the same as you,but alas no! At the moment i'm waiting for a Regional Technical Manager to appear and have a look and make a decision
Mick

 

[Yeti]

Just another thought but have all the injectors been programmed into the ecu as they go into a "default" mode until they have so I'm told, and microprocessors have a happy knack of getting their heads screwed up as we all know

 

[scoobymick]

Just another thought but have all the injectors been programmed into the ecu as they go into a "default" mode until they have so I'm told, and microprocessors have a happy knack of getting their heads screwed up as we all know

I tried that as well,removed rocker cover and physically checked the codes in case the info in the ecu was corrupt,but all ok.I even swapped injectors from a donor,still wouldn't play ball!

 

[dljumbo]

I have a similar problem on my T5. If I hold a constant throttle setting, the engine starts to hesitate intermittently. When power is applied there is no hesitation. Sometimes it does not happen at all. Then it starts and gets worse culminating in idle power and a screen full of lights. I then have to pull over and turn the engine off to reset the computer. After the reset, the engine starts and it works fine again. This has happened to me twice in 10,000 miles.
I also have a seemingly well known problem for which I would like to know if there is a fix. If I use the air con, the engine water level needs replenishing daily. With air con off, very little water is required. Why should this be?
Advice appreciated from a new member.

 

[scoobymick]

I have a similar problem on my T5. If I hold a constant throttle setting, the engine starts to hesitate intermittently. When power is applied there is no hesitation. Sometimes it does not happen at all. Then it starts and gets worse culminating in idle power and a screen full of lights. I then have to pull over and turn the engine off to reset the computer. After the reset, the engine starts and it works fine again. This has happened to me twice in 10,000 miles.
I also have a seemingly well known problem for which I would like to know if there is a fix. If I use the air con, the engine water level needs replenishing daily. With air con off, very little water is required. Why should this be?
Advice appreciated from a new member.

I'll be perfectly honest,i've not been asked to look into coolant loss under those circumstances,however as a technician i know the vehicles technically but not as an owner/regular driver.I will ask around at work for any ideas and let you know if anyone can help.
As to the other problem,is your vehicle still under LR warranty? If so get your local dealer to put it on T4 and check for stored faults.Is the fault becoming more apparent? If it is and there are no stored faults and you are happy to play,try backing out the vehicle speed signal wire from C582 at the Thunder ecu and road test it to confirm fault not present.If this has cured it,fault lies with the dual mass flywheel.The springs can weaken allowing the two sections to chatter,when this happens the ecu tries to rationalize the erratic readings from the ckp sensor and road speed sensors but can't which causes a hesitation and rough/lumpy idle.
Hope this may be of use to you and that you can sort yours out soon,
Mick

 

[scoobymick]

Just in case anyone is interested,Technical Manager came down and said "It's the engine harness causing the problem,put a new one on.",when that didn't work i had to fit more new injectors,same,another new air flow meter,same. Tech Manager came back and decided it was the dual mass flywheel. Well that's now been changed,it's still the same,waiting for the next bright idea from them!
Mick.

 

[scoobymick]

Probably the last update,Land Rover are buying the car back and giving the customer a new one.I spoke to LR technical today and was told they may try to fix at factory,but also an equal chance they will just crush it! Bit of a shame but nice to know i didn't just miss something!!
Mick.

 

[SimonArmstrong]

erm.... even landrover cant get to the bottom of it... serves them right for designing such a complicated engine!

Mick, just how many hours did you spend on it?!

:bgreen: :bgreen: :bgreen:

 

[scoobymick]

Well to be honest i'm too scared to ask,but i would say in the region of 240-250 hours!! If that were to be at our top hourly rate,it would produce a bill of around £27,348!!!! When i spoke to Ray at LRT he said that man hours spent on it would ultimately determine if and when it would go to the crusher. DOH! What a waste,i'd have it as it is if they just want to get rid of it no questions asked!
Mick.
One good thing has come out of this for me though,i have really enjoyed myself on this forum and hopefully i may have helped some people along the way.

 

[mbruneaux]

I once spent a month trying to fix a .5 volt fluctuation under a load at EXACTLY 72mph. All the lights would dim for a split second and it drove the driver crazy, despite the fact that the 2000 GMC Sonoma was overloaded and the driver was speeding with it. The engineer from GMC showed up, looked at what I had done and after five minutes said GMC would buy it back! It was in the programming and all it would have taken is an under/overdrive drive pulley. I got paid s**T warr. time and lost my ass.

:complain: :drive: :complain: :madnoel: