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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So for months and months I have been searching for an answer to my problem. No luck thus far. So everyone talks about the three amigos. My 2002 Disco II has abs/TC/HD problems. I have no warning lights and no functioning abs/TC/HD. I have run codes using my icarsoft from rovers north. I have on occasions received a code saying, rough road implausible signal and a low signal from the front right wheel speed sensor. So with this, I just finished this weekend rebuilding the entire front axle, from the differential out to the brake pads. Therefore, new hubs and wheel speed sensors on the front. Other than that, nothing. So, to recap, my abs/TC/HD does not work, but I have no lights nor codes. Yes, I am sure the abs/TC/HD is not working. Plenty of wheel spin, plenty of braking and locked up tires. Anyway, any guidance would be helpful.
 

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If you can find a community college it technical school that teaches automotive, you should be able to have them scan it with dealer level computers and run functionality tests. The college I went to offered service for free, just the cost or materials. They should be able to pinpoint and tell you if it's the abs computer it the actuators.


Mike Russell

Age 20

2003 discovery se

Lover of Rovers
 

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this might be silly, but do the lights come on when you start the car then turn off?
(maybe previous owner removed the bulbs out of annoyance)
 

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this might be silly, but do the lights come on when you start the car then turn off?
(maybe previous owner removed the bulbs out of annoyance)
+1 for that ^^^, cos then you might have the 3 amigos on without even knowing it... but if the answer is yes and the warnings are working on self test the next thing to check is if the brake lamps are working cos a faulty brake switch can cause that without any fault code logged

btw did you actually try HDC and the green lamp is flashing?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Community college

If you can find a community college it technical school that teaches automotive, you should be able to have them scan it with dealer level computers and run functionality tests. The college I went to offered service for free, just the cost or materials. They should be able to pinpoint and tell you if it's the abs computer it the actuators.


Mike Russell

Age 20

2003 discovery se

Lover of Rovers
This is a good idea. I do have a scanner which reads the abs. Interesting to note. After I finished changing the axle items out, I went ahead today and ran he scanner. I skipped everything and went straight to clear the codes. I then disconnected the scanner and drove the vehicle. I hooked scanner back up and read the codes. It is now throwing a shuttle valve code. I ordered a shuttle valve today from Atlantic British. I still do not have the tres amigos showing up on the dash, but at least I now have a hill descent light at start up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Brake lamps

+1 for that ^^^, cos then you might have the 3 amigos on without even knowing it... but if the answer is yes and the warnings are working on self test the next thing to check is if the brake lamps are working cos a faulty brake switch can cause that without any fault code logged

btw did you actually try HDC and the green lamp is flashing?
If by brake lamps working you mean, do they come on when I press the brake, then yes they do. It is interesting to note, since I replaced both wheel hubs and sensors this weekend, I am now able to see a HDC light at startup and if I press the button, it beeps at me. The vehicle is throwing a shuttle valve code now after fixing the wheel hubs. I still do not have any of the functionality from the three amigos nor lights, but my scanner is actually getting a clear shuttle valve code.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Bulb removal

this might be silly, but do the lights come on when you start the car then turn off?
(maybe previous owner removed the bulbs out of annoyance)
When I bought the car, all the lights and abs/HDC/TC worked fine. This winter when I was driving on a snowy day, I noticed the TC was not lighting up and after driving a little further, I realized I did not have any TC. Since then, I have been searching for forums and fixes dealing with three amigos when he lights are not showing. I was unable to find much of anything. I finally decided to get on the forum. And see what I could ask. The lights always seem to come on when there is a problem, but I have the opposite. They have gone completely blank until now when I am seeing a HDC at startup. It then goes out after the car starts running.
 

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Which HDC do you see? the amber in the bottom row or the green at the top... cos the green is not a fault warning nor part of 3 amigos but if you see the amber one and it goes out it's not OK cos it should stay on as part of the 3 amigos for the SVS fault... if you have scanner compatible with the SLABS try to force the warnings on with it if you can't you need a new instrument pack... btw the SVS is simple to be fixed, see the second sticky thread on this page
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
light at starteup

Which HDC do you see? the amber in the bottom row or the green at the top... cos the green is not a fault warning nor part of 3 amigos but if you see the amber one and it goes out it's not OK cos it should stay on as part of the 3 amigos for the SVS fault... if you have scanner compatible with the SLABS try to force the warnings on with it if you can't you need a new instrument pack... btw the SVS is simple to be fixed, see the second sticky thread on this page
Here is a video of the HDC light at startup. https://youtu.be/aGvjnxwsjQM The video shows the HDC light as you turn he key from off through each step till it cranks. It is short, but shows the light. So, when I turn the key to the on position the green HDC light comes on. The TC ABS light does not come. Once the vehicle cranks, the light turns off. I read through the second sticky. The link takes me to a Honda we page. I was able to google the club page.
 

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The abs and traction control lights should also come on when you are starting then it should go off.
 

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As i said the green HDC is not a fault warning, not part of 3 amigos the amber HDC which doesnt come on in the bottom row is fault warning, if you are sure that you've seen the amber ABS, TC, HDC light in the past and they vanished while the vehicle was in your care most probably the instrument pack is at fault cos you should have the 3 amigos triggered by that SVS fault which sent the ABS into a default with the following functions:
ABS: Deceleration threshold increased; return pump activated if sum of output valve
actuation on one axle exceeds 140 milliseconds.
ETC: Disabled.
EBD: Inlet valves of rear axle close at vehicle deceleration rates of 0.3 g and above.
HDC: Disabled.


So you'll get the functions back after you fix the SVS with the "option B" wiring mod or if you are not up to it you need a good SVS assy(SWO500040) not just the so called ''repair kit"(SWO500030) cos that one in most cases is useless without the wiring mod but if you do the wiring mod that's usually enough unless the SVS fault was caused by brake fluid ingress into the switch pack then you need to fix or replace the whole modulator.... though you'll have to fix the warning lights too one way or another
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Exactly

The abs and traction control lights should also come on when you are starting then it should go off.
Exactly, until I rebuilt the front axle, none of the three lights were coming on. Now the HDC light comes on, but I still do not have any functionality with TC/HDC/ABS. I am getting the shuttle valve fault code so I have ordered the repair from Atlantic British. Once here I will install it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Ah!

As i said the green HDC is not a fault warning, not part of 3 amigos the amber HDC which doesnt come on in the bottom row is fault warning, if you are sure that you've seen the amber ABS, TC, HDC light in the past and they vanished while the vehicle was in your care most probably the instrument pack is at fault cos you should have the 3 amigos triggered by that SVS fault which sent the ABS into a default with the following functions:
ABS: Deceleration threshold increased; return pump activated if sum of output valve
actuation on one axle exceeds 140 milliseconds.
ETC: Disabled.
EBD: Inlet valves of rear axle close at vehicle deceleration rates of 0.3 g and above.
HDC: Disabled.


So you'll get the functions back after you fix the SVS with the "option B" wiring mod or if you are not up to it you need a good SVS assy(SWO500040) not just the so called ''repair kit"(SWO500030) cos that one in most cases is useless without the wiring mod but if you do the wiring mod that's usually enough unless the SVS fault was caused by brake fluid ingress into the switch pack then you need to fix or replace the whole modulator.... though you'll have to fix the warning lights too one way or another
OH, light bulb moment. Let me study on what you are saying. I used to have functionality with the ABS/TC/HDC, but I have never had the warning lights come in in this vehicle that I can think of. The operation lights use to come on when it was working. so, is this repair in the sticky the same as the hummer repair I have read about. In order to do that repair, I will need to order the code to unlock disco II functionality in my Hawkeyes unit. I will need that in order to properly bleed the breaks. Let me study this more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I get it, at least I think.

As i said the green HDC is not a fault warning, not part of 3 amigos the amber HDC which doesnt come on in the bottom row is fault warning, if you are sure that you've seen the amber ABS, TC, HDC light in the past and they vanished while the vehicle was in your care most probably the instrument pack is at fault cos you should have the 3 amigos triggered by that SVS fault which sent the ABS into a default with the following functions:
ABS: Deceleration threshold increased; return pump activated if sum of output valve
actuation on one axle exceeds 140 milliseconds.
ETC: Disabled.
EBD: Inlet valves of rear axle close at vehicle deceleration rates of 0.3 g and above.
HDC: Disabled.


So you'll get the functions back after you fix the SVS with the "option B" wiring mod or if you are not up to it you need a good SVS assy(SWO500040) not just the so called ''repair kit"(SWO500030) cos that one in most cases is useless without the wiring mod but if you do the wiring mod that's usually enough unless the SVS fault was caused by brake fluid ingress into the switch pack then you need to fix or replace the whole modulator.... though you'll have to fix the warning lights too one way or another
Boy what dummy I am. I never thought about the fact, I May not have warning lights because the warning lights are not working. The option B fix you mention is doable and way cheaper than the assembly. Wiring is never my strong part of vehicle repair though. This is pretty basic wiring, cut, splice and reconnect. I will let you know how it goes.
 

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If you've never seen the 3 amigos(ABS/TC/HDC-the amber one) on self test remove the instrument pack and chek if they are not "blancked" with black tape cos some schmucks are doing this to sell the car without warnings on board rather than fix the fault, it's quite common and let's hope he didnt ruin the LEDs... as about the SVS fix, option B is simple and easy permannent cure without side effects, if you didnt find a tutorial here is the most exhaustive one ABS Mod - LAND ROVER CLUB V.I. , you should remove only the switch pack in situ and do what's shown starting from step 38... you can lift the modulator enough to remove the pack just that it's a bit fiddly, i did it myself too in about 1 hour and i have gorilla hands
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Okay, after a vacation, I am now able to get back on this. Good, bad, mistakes and all. I followed the instructions on the link sierrafery provided to modify the shuttle valve switch pack. I have not installed it in the vehicle yet. here are two videos which show what I did. You will see my stupid mistakes and all throughout the two videos. You will also see the lack of a heat gun. Regardless, I ended up with a usable product. I also plan to dig into this under the hood and will report on that later.
so video 1 is here:
https://youtu.be/Qncn6khBdPc
video 2 is here:
https://youtu.be/WjNM7X1Btzw
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
So next steps that I have taken.

Last night:
I completely pulled the ABS pump assembly from the engine compartment. Meaning I disconnected the six different hoses coming into it. I flipped the assembly upside down and remove the shuttle valve switch. I then removed the modulator from the side. I put an new modulator on. I then removed the shuttle valves and replaced the seals and retainer clips with the kit from falcon works. There was evidence the seals were leaking so this step was valuable. I put the new shuttle valve switch on, see videos from my earlier posts in this thread of the hummer fix I did to it. I reinstalled the assembly into the vehicle. I bled the breaks as recommended on the instructions from the ABS mod- land rovers club V.I. Link provided by sierrafery. Brakes grab beautifully. I then cleared all the codes. Next step was to get the pump to fire so I can bleed the last air out of the pump assembly. I locked the vehicle into low range and went to an embankment. I put the vehicle in a cross axle position and got both a front and rear tire to spin. The traction control never came on. I repeated several times and the TC still never came on. Okay, so now I took it up to the top of my drive, I pressed the HDC. The beautiful green light began blinking and the tone dinged as well, and it never stopped. I finally pressed the HDC button to turn it off. I then tried to drive and brake in such a way on a gravel road to get the ABS to engage. It never did. I am confident the pump never turned on through the whole test. The brakes grab though which is good, I just have no ABS/HDC/TC. Nor do I have any warning lights. I still need to pull the console to see if they were blacked out, but visual inspections through the front of the console do not appear to show any black tape over that area. Also, now, the electrical shuttle valve code is not coming up anymore so that is good. So the short of it is. No codes, new modulator, shuttle valve seals and shuttle valve switch and still no functioning TC/ABS/HDC.

I then read the data stream using my device. It shows the wheel speed sensors are sending different speeds during the cross axle situation. It shows the HDC button changes to engaged when I press it. It shows the new shuttle valve switch is reading open and closed when I depress the brakes. Everything appears to be working, the computer even shows everything is working, but mechanically nothing happens.
 

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Confirm there are no fault codes stored after that ride you did? ...anyway there are cases when the SLABS ECU has a delay in storing the codes but as long as you dont have working warning lights nothing is very relevant, you must see the warning lights making the system the self test then go out and if after that no ABS/TC/HDC activity we can blame the ECU but not before cos in case the 3 amigos are on the system will not work, there are 9 cases for that and SVS is only one of them
 
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