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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well,

The problems I mentioned as a "side note" that happened a week later in my post about my washer reservoir just happened AGAIN. We've only had the vehicle back a week, driven it maybe 100 miles and it's doing all the following again:

- Transmission Fault
- "HDC Fault System Not Available"
- "Cruise Control Not Permitted"
- "Special Programs Off"
- "Suspension Lowered"
- The "Brake" light is amber
- The DSC & ETC Light is amber
- The suspension light is amber.
- The vehicle lowered itself to the "access" setting and won't raise back up
- The ABS is totally screwy

Looks like another forum member experienced the same issues as well here.

So I just called roadside assistance. They're going to tow it back to Spokane (400 miles from my house.....the closest dealership). Of course, since it's a weekend I have no one to deal with in the service department so no rental car coverage for me until Monday. I'm going to get one from Enterprise in the morning and just have the dealer pay for it in the end.

Bottom line is this SUCKS! They supposedly fixed the problem and didn't. I can't keep having my LR3 towed 800 miles round-trip to a dealer for the next 6 months until my lease is up. I'm contacting LR North America on Monday and telling them they need to end the lease now without any penalties or I'm going to have to go lemon law on them (I know it usually requires three major "unrepairs").

Wish me luck!
 

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Former LR tech, Albany NY
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your **** out of luck, lemon law only applies to the state and the dealer you bought it in.

I told you to get rid of it or else.

The fixing dealer will not pay for the rental if you didnt buy it from them.

They have no obligation to you whatsoever if you didnt buy from them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Since it's leased, I can't just trade it in or sell it, so that wasn't an option.

This dealer paid for my rental when it happened last time and it's not the dealer I purchased the vehicle from.

I realize now lemon law won't work (I did some more research since my last post). I'm just going to go with the approach of round trip tows cost LR Roadside Assistance ~$2000 every time this happens and I only have 4 ($2000 worth) lease payments left. I'm just hoping the dealer and LR Capital decide it might be worth accepting the turn-in now (4 payments early) rather than risk "fixing it" again and then having to do this all over the next time it happens.

Guess we'll see. Right now it's just an inconvenience. Roadside Assist keeps covering the tows and the dealer is covering the rental so I'm not out any $$.
 

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Just an observer of freaks
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Roadside Assist keeps covering the tows and the dealer is covering the rental so I'm not out any $$.
Except for paying $500+/month to drive a Dodge Caravan lol.

Just kidding, that really sucks. Hope they get it sorted for you. What kind of motor are you thinking of getting next? Obviously one that has a dealer in your area hehe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
LOL...that's what they gave me last time! Got a Yukon this time though.

Looking at the V8 Pathfinder. Suits my needs of hauling family of 5 around most times, kayaks on the roof w/ gear and buddies at other times, camper/trailer in the summer, gets around w/out any problems during the winter, and is decent for the occasional need to go off-road. I've never been a serious off-road type (like most on this site) and didn't lease the LR3 for that purpose.

There's a Nissan dealer 3 miles from my house so I won't have to worry about warranty issues this time. I'm in the AF and they move us around a lot. I leased the LR3 when I was stationed in Los Angeles and didn't know we were going to get orders to the middle of nowhere Montana. Had I known we were going to be 400 miles from the closest dealer, I would have never gotten the vehicle. It's been GREAT when I haven't had warranty issues though, and we'll miss it (well, the times it was working ;) )
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
So.....the dealer thought they figured out the problem and replaced the instrument cluster. Then told me they couldn't get LR to cover a re-unite and that the Roadside Assistance service covers a tow TO the dealer, nothing about getting the vehicle BACK to you. Not wanting to pay $1,000 to have it towed back (after many calls trying to get someone to pay for it since it's not my fault the damn thing keeps breaking), I finally jumped on a plane and flew out to Spokane for $300. Drove back the same day making great time. Weather was great for March around here and I even had the sunroof open. Got home, everyone was happy to have the LR3 back. We went to drop off the rental and two blocks after driving away from Enterprise.............yep, same thing!

Dealer's trying to figure it out before I send it back again (checking other service departments for same issue, etc.). It hasn't done it again since last Wednesday but it's only a matter of time before it happens again. I told him over my dead body was I going to pay for any transportation costs this time. They're the ones who failed to fix it.

Side note-I'm not pleased with this dealer AT ALL. They never return my calls or calls back like they says they will, my interior has been trashed each time I've gotten it back even though they received it in pristine condition when the LR was dropped off, and to top it off I washed it last weekend and there's light scratches/swirls all throughout the paint clearcoat. They obviously washed it with an automatic brush wash or with dirty rags and "sanded" my clear coat. Nothing I can't fix with a half-day of labor and Mother's Gold clay bar, polish, & wax.....just not what you'd expect from a supposed high-end dealer. :mad:
 

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Former LR tech, Albany NY
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you didnt buy it from them so they aren't obligated to help you. Trust me they think of you more as a problem customer they dont have to worry about. They will try their best but trust me they have no loyalty to you. Maybe your selling dealer will help you out. Have you tried that avenue. You bought it from them and yet you have done nothing to try and get something from them. Or did you simply ignore them cause your in another state.

My boss tells people like you, Was the dealership here when you bought the car? Of course it was, so then stop the bitching. If you knew that the nearest dealer was four hundred miles away then you were simply sticking your head in the sand and hoping all was good. Did you honestly think that your vehicle would never break down and that all your service would be covered by some local guy that doesn't even know what a land rover is?

Do everyone a favor and stop the bitching and take it like a man. You did this too yourself not the dealer.
 

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Just an observer of freaks
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R4L, you're the kind of lazy ass, poor service, piece of **** that's going to send Land Rover down the tubes. The guy leased, not bought, the LR3, then later got transferred away for work. He plans to get a different vehicle shortly when his lease is up, he has said that. In the mean time he has had to deal with having his LR3 in the shop more days than on the road for the same re-occurring issue.

So what, in order to get our trucks repaired properly we are not allowed to move away from our dealer? Give me a break. You say because he didn't buy it from them they aren't obligated to help him?? I doubt you even work for Land Rover, because that is NOT Land Rover policy....not to mention pretty much illegal.

He is a Land Rover customer and is getting work done under warranty. As a customer, it is in his legal rights to have it resolved CORRECTLY and to receive fair customer service. That dealership fucked up on it and didn't fix it. THAT DEALERSHIP got PAID by LRNA to fix it and THAT DEALERSHIP did not fix it...TWICE.

...and there's no excuse for trashing his car.

Good luck to you class5k. Give LRNA Customer Relationship Center
a call, they will help you. 1-800-FIND-4WD
 

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Former LR tech, Albany NY
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when I say help I dont mean servicing the car. They will service the car as many times as it takes. He put himself in a bad situation and wants sympathy. LR rules are clear. No tow back. What is going to happen next time he gets an intermittent problem that the dash board lites intermittenly go off in the cold. Or the battery goes dead, the remotes dont work. What if he loses both keys? Guess what they need to car to program both keys to get it started. And is he going to drive it to the dealer everytime or is he going to get it towed. He has to face up to the situation that he either gets out of the lease now or suffer the consequences. He is in the military and knows damn well the risks that come with the job. Getting orders to move at any time come with the job. He should of thought of that when he bought the vehicle. Every sales customer has different needs and all have the same wants. They want a new car with the prestige that goes with it. But most live within a short distance of the dealer, to those who dont they need to understand the sacrifice they will make to own such a vehicle. In his case its the sacrifice that will be made as a member of our armed forces.
Our sales dept is happy to sell you a car and send you on the way no matter how far away you live. But you are the one that has to deal with any consequence that comes along with it. If you buy from another dealer and the local dealer refuses to give you a rental oh well. If you go to America as a canadian and buy one cheaper and bring it back to Canada and a dealer refuses to honor the warantee oh well. Some manufacturers are more forgiving, Some aren't. That is what you as a consumer have to look into when buying a vehicle. Its called homework. Do it or get screwed.
 

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Just an observer of freaks
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It's upsetting when you say things like "you didnt buy it from them so they aren't obligated to help you." and "Trust me they think of you more as a problem customer they dont have to worry about." and "They will try their best but trust me they have no loyalty to you."

It isn't the first time I've heard this kind of snobbery from LR dealerships. Sort of reminds me of the scene from Pretty Woman...."Remember me? ...Big mistake." ;) Experienced similar when I moved to Virginia & I tell you what, if I hadn't been able to find a different dealer that valued my relationship with them I don't know how long I would have kept my LR3, even though I love it.

It's not whether or not this guy's dealer covers a tow home (although I would think they would do something to assist since this is their third strike out). You are missing the big picture. Attitudes like yours lose potential customers, not only at risk is this one guy, who may some day want another Land Rover, but also people by word of mouth, people in Internet land... In the long run your dealership, and Land Rover's reputation in general suffers.

You are posting on these forums as a Land Rover representative & it doesn't come across well. Does it only matter if a person buys a vehicle off your lot? Or should it matter more to you that a customer remains loyal to the brand and spread their positive experience to others?

I'm told that Land Rover has a goal to be in the top 3 in customer satisfaction by 2012...there ARE some excellent dealerships out there, but it's hit 'n miss and that's scary for people considering purchase. If LR wants to reach that goal quite a few dealerships need a serious attitude adjustment.

I do appologize for calling you a lazy ass, poor service, piece of ****. :eek: Caught me with the right amount of Captain in me...was wrong of me to say that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Well, I log back on to let ya'll know it's only gotten worse. Already in a bad mood and then I see Rovin 4 Life's posts.

Dude, you are an ASS. Your attitude is exactly what I've experienced from LR of Spokane. You act like it's MY FAULT the piece of **** keeps breaking and the fucking dealer can't figure out what's wrong with it. Well guess what buddy, it's not my fault.....it's theirs. I've never taken the thing off-road and it's not even drivable. There is an electrical short or grounding problem that's very random. Every time it gets towed to the dealer they can't re-create it. Why? Probably because it's moisture related and the damn thing gets blow-dried during the 400 mile tow to Spokane.

After reading many of your posts to others, it sounds to me like you're just jealous that you're stuck working on other people's nice rides. And the whole military thing....way to be patriotic and understanding asshole. How about you go camping in Afghanistan in some caves and I'll see if one of my buddies can send you a 2000lb "thank you" card from me. The base I'm at is one of the VERY FEW AF bases not within 100 miles of a LR dealership. I never volunteered to go there, but yes that's one of the risks of the job. Thanks for being so understanding jackass. But enough about some jackass technician who acts like a pompous ass.

Back to my issue....same problem kept happening, but would "reset" after turning the car off and back on until three weeks ago. It was raining for days and it happened after the car was parked in the rain for two days (I was using my garage to do some work). I've figured out the likely problem since sending it to he dealer. There was water on the passenger floor-board when the problems happened. Probably clogged sunroof drain valves backing up and leaking on wiring harness(es). Anyway, the tow truck drove it to Spokane, dropped it off to the dealer in person on a Saturday. They had him park it on the street and said they'd lock it on the lot that night. On the following Tuesday I called to ask the status. Left a voicemail, no return call. Same thing on Wednesday. I finally get a call on Thursday and the guy says they don't have my vehicle. WTF!!!??? So I call the tow truck driver and he gives me detailed info about when he dropped it off, how he took pictures since they made him park it on the street, and the name of the guy he gave the keys to. When I called the dealer back, he told me he'd look into it. 1 hour later they called to say they "found" my vehicle. SERIOUSLY!!!??? You fuckers had it parked across the street for 5 days and it never occurred to anyone that it was supposed to be serviced? (the dealer is in a low-traffic part of town, in a small town with not many Land Rovers anyway) So they say they'll look into the problem (no apologies by the way). I told them at this point I don't care whether they can fix it or not because I only had 5 weeks left in the lease and there was no way I was flying out to Spokane to pick the damn lemon up, drive it back to MT, to just have to drive it back 4 weeks later with an additional 800 miles racked up towards (and pushing me over) my lease mileage limit.

The following week, still no call. I call the dealer and ask to speak to the top person at the dealership. I got the "President" (that's what she referred to herself as) and told her the whole story, including the fact I wanted to turn in the leased vehicle now. She apologized and assured me the lack of CUSTOMER SERVICE I had received was not what she expected. I related it was all I ever had experienced in the three times the car had been in. No one ever calling back after promising to call, inept wrench-turners (err....Technicians....sorry R4L...not really asshole!), and how the whole thing was the exact opposite you'd expect from a luxury car dealership (Land Rover/Jaguar). So I wait for my call back, and the service dept calls back trying to cover their asses, assuring me they're going to work on it immediately. I tell them I don't care because I don't want it back. They didn't listen, drove it 430 miles in 3 days trying to get it to create the same problem. Of course it never happened. So they call me today and tell me to come pick it up. Ummmmmm.....HELLO. HAS ANYONE AT THIS FUCKING DEALERSHIP BEEN LISTENING TO ME? I AM NOT PICKING THAT PIECE OF **** COMPUTER ON 4 WHEELS BACK UP. It's like the windows version of a car....continually crashing and everyone expects you to just accept the fact, reboot, and move on. So I tell them again that I'm turning it in NOW. They tell me they can't help me w/ my last month's payment issue, even though they're the idiots who can't fix the vehicle and who have caused me to not have it for months. Then they fax me the odometer statement and that's when I realize they've driven it so many miles and put me over my lease limit. Not their problem they tell me. NOT THEIR PROBLEM???!!! HELLO JACKASSES, I TOLD YOU I DIDN'T WANT IT BACK SO WHY DID YOU RACK UP THE MILES FOR A VEHICLE I COULD CARE LESS IF IT WAS FIXED?? I expected them to list the miles from when I turned it in. So I tell them I'm not signing it. They tell me that's the only way they can start the lease termination. I tell the SERVICE dept manager (who apparently has forgotten his job is about customer SERVICE) to put the President on the phone. He says she's out (liar). I tell him to have her call me ASAP.

While waiting for the return call, I call Land Rover North America. They were EXTREMELY helpful. I filed a formal complaint with them regarding Land rover/Jaguar of Spokane and explained the whole situation. The individual was very sincere in his apologies, related he didn't have the authority to waive the last month's payment but that he agreed with me that I shouldn't have to pay it and would take it up his chain. He gave me the direct # to call him back with any further issues/questions and promised to get back to me by Tuesday. This was the experience I should have received from the start by the dealer. It's the opposite of what one would expect. The local small dealer having absolutely no customer service (and their business depends on it) and the large corporation that you dial an 800 number for and play touch-tone tag actually being the helpful ones.

Oh, and the president never called me back. I called them again and they said she just stepped out. Fucking liars have caller ID. There's no way that small-town dealership is so busy I have to continually get voicemail. When I dealt with the dealership in Los Angeles, who happened to be the number one dealer in sales volume of all of North America, I'd always get someone on the phone within 2 minutes of calling. I bet if I called from my hotel room here in VA they'd connect me through right away. I'm writing formal letters to the Better Business Bureau, the Spokane Chamber of Commerce, and the local Spokane news papers next week.

I'll never buy a Land Rover again in my life. Everyone I know will hear about this and I'll tell them to spread the word. I certainly hope that this dealership isn't the norm, but this is what happens. Customers base their beliefs about a product/company on their small experiences.

Oh, my custom-ordered Pathfinder arrives this week. FULLY loaded with nicer options than my LR3, it costs less, and there's a dealership 3 miles from my house.

Oh, expect some ebay links next weekend after I get back home. Anyone else stuck with an LR3 that wants to purchase my clean WeatherTech front, rear, & cargo liners, and/or my trailer wiring harness, and/or that ridiculously expensive trailer hitch can buy them for me at incredible savings. Anyone interested can pm me in advance.

I'm out. Thanks to those who have been nice/helpful on these forums. R4L needs to eat **** and die though.
 

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So what happened exactly because I'm having all the Same problem except for the cruise control issue. Been to the dealer twice with no luck. Please get back to me with what happened to the car because the problems seem to be getting more frequent
 

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when I say help I dont mean servicing the car. They will service the car as many times as it takes. He put himself in a bad situation and wants sympathy. LR rules are clear. No tow back.
A few thoughts to offer having read all comments in the light of impartiality to the specific situation.

1/ R4Life is correct that there is a policy and we as owners have an obligation to be mindful of it when we buy and make decisions accordingly. We also have a general obligation to be reasonable with those who provide service to us, such that when they exceed the policy for our benefit, we recognize it and are grateful, rather than expect it.

2/ However, the owner in this case has a reasonable basis to expect that his vehicle would be fixed correctly on the first try. I'll concede that I'm prepared to cut slack to the business in a situation like this- we all make mistakes and diagnosing intermittent problems is difficult, but certainly after the 2nd try it's reasonable to expect a dealer to make some concession that they have at least some culpability for not being able to get the fix right.

3/ I didn't see any signs at the sales counter when I bought mine suggesting that if I live more than 100 miles from a dealer I should consider something else. I also would not expect the leadership of LRNA would want ANY buyer to have to worry about how far a Land Rover dealer is from their location before making the decision to buy one. They spend a great deal of money on marketing themselves as THE vehicle for locations well off the beaten path. They also know that Nissan and Chevy dealers are everywhere which puts them at a competitive disadvantage- so they have a business reason to try to compensate for that when necessary.

4/ A few hundred dollars (or even 1000) to make the situation right for a customer...especially in this price class, is probably a wise business decision. Anyone who can afford a Land Rover new in small town Montana is probably in the upper 80th percentile range of income in the area, and would likely have regular contact and influence with others of similar means. That probability plus the fact that this is now on the web for all to see for the next few years could easily cost that dealer (or at least LR) multiple sales. This is a reality that successful businesses over the long haul (and their employees) have a profound understanding of.

I've been very happy with my dealer (LR Flatirons) over the years, and they've earned my repeat business. I also tell others how happy I've been with my 2 Land Rovers and the level of service I've received...often to the point of changing a negative perception. Bingo...potential new Land Rover customer with every conversation. In fact one of my neighbors bought one partly on the strength of my endorsement.

Best,
Dave
 
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