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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I am the owner of a Series I XD...About 3 weeks ago my LR dealer recently completed the 60,000 mile maintenance check in addition to replacing the rear brakes and change a a hose which was slowly dripping fluid (which was difficult to get to since it was located directly under the engine). Last evening, the "Check Engine" light lit up (but not blinking) -- so I dropped the car off at the LR dealer and they claim I need a "Valve Job." Does this seem right? Does one have to do with the other? Is this just a coinscidence? Do all Land Rover's Series I with 60,000 + miles need a valve job?

Background Info: When they were completing the 60,000 check - they had my vehicle for over 3 weeks...(blamed on being busy and needing parts). Thwe vehicle has had all it's maintenance checks and kept up very well...never takedn off road...now this suddenly happens...any comments/suggestions/recommendations...Please advise?

Thanks!

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"Valve Job" is the biggest line of crap most dealers will feed you....and you can't determine that one needs a valve job simply because the engine light is on..

I would contact Michael at West Coast British in Livermoore, CA. Ask him... his dad worked for LR for over 40 years and Michael himself worked as a warranty advisor for the factory for 10 years... Ask him about this "valve job" business and see what he tells ya... ;)


Serg
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
re: Valve -

Thanks Serg! It really means a lot to hear from you! Would you have an e-mail or phone number to reach Michael @ West Coast British? What do you possibly think that problem would be, when the "check engine" light is lit? The valve job seems too much of a major job, with so little miles. Thanks again! You may contact me at [email protected].
 

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Yeah sounds like a load of crap!! Do what I did... go to a local Kragen or Autozone and for $69.99 buy yourself the Proscan Pocket Scanner.. it will scan your "check engine" light and tell you a code.. then you can look up the codes on line and see what it is... There is no way to know what the "check engine" light means unless you hook up a reader and check it.. this will be good insurance as well for future trips to stealers or other places to make sure they are being honest.

Michael's contact info can be found on his site.. I fully trust his expertise and knowledge.. http://www.offroadexperience.com/wcb/



Serg

P.S. Hey... let's see some pics of your XD!!
 

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Yeah I say it is a load of crap too. Talk to people, at an independant shop. Don't listen to dealers. The independants have the same equipment/diagnotic machines, as the dealers do, but with more experiance. :D Find the exact codes it is giving. Good luck.

Is it running strange stalls or misses???? :confused
 

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LandRoverXD said:
To me, (as a daily driver) it's driving normal...no strange stalls...any additional assistance (outlook) would be held in high regard.

Thanks!
Well if it driving fine, not missfiring and you are not seeing a big drop in gas mileage.. then it is a load of crap they are feeding you! 100% through and through... talk to Michael at WCB or any independent Land Rover shop in your area.. stop going to the dealer, they are ripping you off.
 

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i've been troubleshooting my misfires, stuttering problem for over an year. tried everything. finally bit the bullet and did a valve job myself, got parts remachined. after i put it all back together same thing. then one day i get the typical rattle from my cat... turns out my cat was hosed without showing any symptons, passed emissions and such...
point to my story is , it's prolly not a valve job you need... i found out hard way, least i have a newly rebuilt engine minus some bolts, nuts and screws that came off but can't find where to put them back on :lol:
if your check engine light is on, head down to a shop and ask them to hook it up and find out what code it's throughing and go from there. and as serg said, unless you're going to the dealer for warranty work, stay away from them
take care
sam
 

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LandRoverXD....check you email! :wave:

Hey Dent :wave: Your baby still running ok??
 

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O.K....since everyone has such a strong opinion on this, i feel like i need to add mine also(we all know what they say about opinions, right?)
well, to start, i'm a little confused as to the model of your disco...your original post says both 1 and 2...no bother , though, it really doesn't matter

i'm assuming (we all know what they say when you assume, right?) that it is a disco 2...i hope it is, as there arent any pipes or lines that are difficult to access under the engine on a disco 1(and the pipes/lines on a disco 2 are only moderately difficult to access, but this is not relevant for my point)

with 60,000 miles on your car, have you ever changed the spark plug wires?, my guess is no, and going on the assumption of original wires, i'll give you my guess as to what happened
your original wires were/are at the end of their usefull life...at this point they begin to get worn and brittle, due to engine heat and general age..this is common......when this happens, your wires begin to arc and short, causing the engine management to pick up misfires and cause the check eng light to illuminate
your wires were probably borderline/just holdin on, so to speak)...but when the dealer did the 60k, they changed the spark plugs(first set for disco 2).....this disturbed the wires from their original locations...they were probably moved, and disturbed during the "hose under engine" repair also.
this is most likely what happened for the check engine light to illuminate after the dealer visit....now, for the valve job diagnosis

the check engine lt. is more than likely due to misfire codes, this is why the dealer is trying to sell you a valve job, ,,,,,BUT.....
if your wires are original, they should, without a doubt, try to sell you new wires, with the warning that this may not be the cure
no dealer in their right mind would sell a valve job without first making sure the ignition sytem is 100% healthy...it would be extremely stupid on their part to do this, for obvious reasons...especially with no noticable drivability issues
now for the valve job itself
the land rover valve job may well be the most misunderstood/cursed diagnosis any owner can get..with a repair bill to match, but the land rover engines do have valve issues
like it or not..valve jobs(more specifically, guide reaming) IS A NECCESARY REPAIR....it's misdiagnosis may be intentional or it may just be due to ignorance on the shops behalf, but it is necc. at times...regardless of popular opinion

long story short..if the wires are original, and they made no mention of renewing the spark plug leads...i would't hesitate to find a new shop, but don't assume for a minute that you've dodged the valve job ...you may well need one in the future :eek:
 

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LandroverXD...hello again....after re-reading my post it occurs to me that i may have came off a little confrontational, i apologize,i wasn't trying to be..
anyway..
my guess as to the plug wires having been disturbed and causing misfires is still a likely scenario to me.
Have you ever had the plug wires changed? If not, i would ask the dealer why they are trying to sell you a valve job instead of wire replacement.

If you are willing, there is a way to check these yourself if you're so inclined(this is only a feild fix/repair/diag...and shouldn't be considered a definitive test)

Around dusk, close to dark, open the hood of your rover...take a spray bottle of water(i use a windex bottle, make sure it has been rinsed thoroughly)
start your car up...and VERY LIGHTLY mist down your spark plug wires.
any weak spot on the wires will show up with a visible arc/snap...this will be fairly obvious.
If any arcing is noted...then you no doubt need new ignition leads, and this should without a doubt, come before a valve job.
If no arcing is found, but wires are original, i'd invest in a set of these first anyway.
please use due caution, be very careful under the hood of a running auto

also, i would ask the dealer what codes you have that are causing them to sell you a valve job...ask for a printout from their diagnostic machine, also,
ask them what hose they changed...don't let them give you some kind of b.s. line either...make them pop the hood and show you(or the general area)
one of my greatest peeves is dealers who can't be bothered to take a little time to show the customers why they just took large sums of money for repairs.......it's your car, and your money, you have a right to know and ask questions
hope this helps :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Codes: Please Decipher

Land Rover Discovery - Series I - 60,000 miles

2 codes:

PO300
PO461

Please help me decipher...and your thoughts. If you have any additional questions or information feel free to contact me directly at [email protected] - thanks for all your assistance...you are all a great help!
 

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ok...did some "poking around"
p0300...this fault indicates a generall random misfire..this means you're engine is misfiring, but it's not consistent enough to pin it to a single cylinder...this is good, and would be consistent with worn/ arcing wires.(or contaminated fuel, but more on this later)
generally,(but definately not always) valve jobs show up as cylinder specific misfires..meaning you would have a code something like this...p0305....which would be misfire on cylinder 5 only..etc.
now for the second fault..p0461...this ones a little tricky
this fault is for a "FUEL LEVEL RATIONALITY FAULT"
thats rovers' way of saying your e.c.m has seen a fault in your fuel level sender...this is the part that tells your gas gauge how much fuel is in your tank
the e.c.m expects to see the senders resistance(and fuel level) change at a reasonable rate.....it looks at the fuel level..then expects to see it drop within a predetermined time frame/rate...if it doesnt do this, or it sees what the computer may interpret as unrealistic changes..it triggers this fault

now i'm REALLY gonna go out on a limb(as if i havent already)
although you didnt say so in your post, im going to assume the dealer did your gas tank recall on your last vist....if the fuel pump/sending unit was heavily corroded(most are)they may have damaged the pump connections and couldnt re-use your pump/sending unit assembly
pumps are very difficult to get at this point in the recall..as rover and the pump supplier didn't forsee the need to up production in anticipation of the upcoming recall(land rover has a tendency to overlook little things like that :complain: )
this may account for the 3 weeks downtime/waiting for parts issue they told you about
it's possible they never did get you a new pump/sending unit, but installed an old/useable one they had...and it.s possible this pump had a faulty sending unit
its also possible they filled your tank with contaminated fuel after the recall also, which would account for the random misfire codes ,too

so..my next move would be this....find out if the gas tank recall had been done, and confirm if they did install a new pump
also, i would fill my gas tank with premium fuel and maybe some drygas..have the codes cleared, check for arcing wires...and see if the light comes back on
let me know how you make out :)

(and if the recall wasn't done...well, thats what i get for ASSUMING..lol)
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
re:

Thanks so much for clarifying the codes...
Well, to clear things up, no there was no replacement of anything related to the "gas tank"...last visit or any other that I can remember, but I can look into it...when exactly was that recall from (is there a website you can point me to, or a specific code that I can let Lanr Rover know about, if they play hard ball?)

To clear things up a bit more, I have always used top notch gasoline in the Disco...know for the brand or quaily of the gas, that I can only say relies on the gas station and it's honesty :).

Within the 60,000 mile job (or prior) is there a spec. time that LR would ever change the wires etc?

In your opinion, what is the immediate next thing I should do since the dealer has my LR and is "scheduled" to work on it within the next couple of days?

Please throw this around and let me know, feel free to contact me directly at [email protected]

PS - How do you know so much about LR?


THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR INFO - YOUR DATA IS BEING HELD IN HIGH REGARD!
 

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o.k..i put my foot in mY mouth as usuall on the tank recall...in any case, i found the vin ranges for the recall to be done
RANGE ROVER CLASSIC- PA637653 TO SA662245
DISCOVERY SERIES 1 (LJ) RA072463 TO TA199999
TA500000 TO VA546039
VA700000 TO VA714242
if your disco falls into one of these vin ranges..it probably needs the recall...but my guess is that it doesnt, because the dealer didnt do it :dunno:
but anyway...no, there is no scheduled replacement of the plug wires...they get replaced when they need to be replaced, unlike other maintainence items like plugs/filters etc...
so if you don't specifically remember changing them, and your service records show you never changed them(you would remember..the dealer cost is substancial)
they likely were never replaced

my next move would be to call the dealer tomorrow and ask them why they think you need a valve job before wire replacement(remember, it's your car and your money)
if , in fact, the wires are original, i would have them change these first, and clear the codes...and then see what happens
with new wires, and new plugs...drive the car and see if the misfire code comes back...if it does, you most likely do need a valve job

worst case scenario is you do need a valve job, but why not try to avoid it by replacing plug leads that probably needed to be replaced anyway

as for the other error code, ask them what their diagnosis would be...if they renew the sending unit, and the fault comes back...don't be afraid to hold them to their original diagnosis....one diag/one repair bill is how it should be...dont pay to let them swap new parts in at your expense :clap:

and lastly..i wouldn't say i know that much about rovers..but what i do know , i guess, you could say it's in my blood...along with that smelly, wretched 90 weight gear oil ...lol
and , of course..the internet...it's a great way to share info :drink1:
 

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Son of Lucas, has good information too! It is true sometimes valve jobs are required, but that should be a last resort. Spark plug wires need to be checked as well, but just a FYI, I have 105,000 miles, still original wires :eek: , but I have changed plugs. :D It's in the works!

If this is your first Rover, READ, READ, READ, READ these posts and the whole forum! It has taken me 3years of Reading, blood, sweat, and many tears :bawling: to figure out some things in my Rover. Just get into it. :D

Don't worry about the "valve job" situation, your ok!
 

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I remember being on a forum (not this one) where a number of members posted, regarding valve jobs, and it developed into total hysteria. Suddenly, everyone who had a mystery symptom, of any sort, thought they needed a valve job. It's good to see that's died down.
 
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