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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just had to mention...

Ever since I got the XD I am getting lots of waves.. the weird thing is that almost all of them are coming from the NEW Range Rovers... I can't figure it out. All these businessmen types in their RR's are waving... and I always wave back :wave:


Serg
 

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Wheeler
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They are jealous !!! They want to hang out w/ the OGs.
D1's are the real deal.

Seriously though,,,the enduring popularity & instantly recognizable profile of the Disco (not to mention the Defender & Series) goes to show how much Ford is squandering the history of the marque.
 

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You know, the whole wave thing cuts both ways. Back when I had the Freelender, I'd wave at Discos and RRs and get a blank stare back. When I had the Disco, I'd get waves from about half of the Freelanders, Discos and RRs and the other half would look at me like I was crazy. Now that I have the 1990 County, I get waves from everyone :clap:

The few Defender and Series owners around where I live wave at everybody. :drink1:
 

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SCSL said:
Seriously though,,,the enduring popularity & instantly recognizable profile of the Disco (not to mention the Defender & Series) goes to show how much Ford is squandering the history of the marque.
Don't hold back, Skizzle, tell us how you really feel about FORD.
The series truck died a natural death more than 20 years ago, though the pre Defender 90s and 110s weren't much different apart from gearbox and suspension. Though the Disco 3 was in it's initial planning stages before Ford took over, and influence tha new parent had on LR couldn't have been all bad, based upon the reviews. While Disco owners love their trucks, their reputation was bad initially and never shook the negative image till the latest Disco 2s. Defenders were never homoligated by the USDOT, hence their few number. Ford gave LR a directive to continue Defender production, though their sales numbers have fallen way off in the UK and abroad. The new Classic Parts division happened under Ford's watch, and I get the feeling it was at their directive.
So I'm wondering why you feel Ford has been so bad, if bad at all for bailing the company out.
 

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Since I got my Rhino, I'll wave at just about every Landy. Most happen to be soccer moms of sorts, but hey I wave just the same. :wave:
If I see an offroad setup Rover (Disco/Series/Defender/Range) I'll give them the headlight flash & wave combo. lol :drive:

Atleast I'm try'n. I think all Rover owners should wave to each other. We're like a family! Or an elite club, however you wanna look at it.
 

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Wheeler
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TerryS said:
So I'm wondering why you feel Ford has been so bad, if bad at all for bailing the company out.
This is an interesting conversation, and at the risk of "hi-jacking" Serg's thread, I'll try to summarize my thoughts:
- While the continued advancement of the RR & Disco lines is a good thing (not, as some might say, an abandonment of LR heritage), the move to luxury, IFS, etc, exclusively ,,,ie: the lack of any solid axle, true off-road focused, truck,,, does represent the abandonment, by Ford, of the off-road (or "working" truck) segment. This segment of the market is in fact popular & growing, as evidenced by the success of the Rubicon, the enduring success of the Jeep in general, the booming popularity of the H2, and now the H3.
- Recent Hummer ads, complete w/ the H3 on safari & giraffes in the background, would tend to indicate full-on encroachment by GM into the Land Rover 'mystique' that is apparently going to continue unchallenged by Ford.
- In the is sense, Ford seems content with 'moving on' from the history & heritage of the marque. The market abhors a vaccum. In LR's absence, another branch will fill the niche (whether than niche is in fact tangible, or merely psychological, is of course a matter open to debate. Regardless, the marketing niche exists).
-etc
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
SCSL said:
This is an interesting conversation, and at the risk of "hi-jacking" Serg's thread, I'll try to summarize my thoughts:
I think every thread I have started in the last few weeks has been hi-jacked, so go ahead.. :D
 

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Wheeler
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Serg said:
I think every thread I have started in the last few weeks has been hi-jacked, so go ahead.. :D
What are your thoughts on this?
I responded at the risk of being misconstrued as one of those guys who just bashes everything "new",,, which I'm really not. I just get fired up when I see the new H3 ad,,,and see Ford taking the heritage of LR for granted. There is an enormous amount of passion & intensity around the marque, as evidenced by this forum. And that passion is not limited to hardcore wheelers,,, far from it. Most new owners cannot help but becoming intrigued by the history. I believe in being a good ambassador to the brand and that you can't support the LR community without welcoming all new owners with open arms. I can't stand "rock snobs".

That being said, I fear the heritage will be co-opted by GM (and others) in the absence of any moves by Ford to keep the spirit alive. The luxury & "sports" marketing is great,,, but there's also room (and need,, and demand) for the off-road heritage.

Your thoughts?
 

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Serg who? Just kidding Serg. I wave when the 'right' vehicle approaches. That wave has, on occasion become a 'salute' when the wavee ignores.

Now, Can I go back to the highjacked topic? Good.
SCSL, I don't disagree that "others' are making hay while the opportunity exists, but Ford didn't abandon the Defender return. In fact more positive indications have come forth recently than had BMW ever offered. The sad truth that the Defender can not come back in it's existing form isn't a hurdle that Ford could easily overcome. What it will ultimately look like won't ever satisfy some, but the regulators are the ones Ford needs to satisy first. Three new manufacuring operations, producing the Defender under license have opened. We're about the only country that won't allow it, but it seems the EEC countries are getting 'regulation fever' and some changes are necessary to anticipate those new regulations. There are a lot of diehard series lovers out there that lament the day the series three gave way to the 90 and 110, and even now don't like Defenders. While I can't be certain, I have to believe some utility product will still be offered, and hopefully to more of us. Who knows what it will cost. When the NAS110 came out, everyone said it was way too expensive.
 

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SCSL - It's the McDonald's Theory. Micky D's can sell hamburgers cheap b/c it sells trillions of them. Jeep sells a heck of a lot more Jeeps than Land Rover sells Rovers. It comes down to economical sense. Yes, I too believe FORD needs to step up and fight to retain, or in this case, get back, the tittle to being the adventure vehicle. If FORD was smart, they would revamp the Special Vehicles Division of LR to produce the offroad vehicles that we so dearly love and sell them at an affordable price to allow LR to keep the image of actually being the most well travelled vehicle on the planet.

ARE YOU LISTENING FORD???? DON'T FORGET ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT MADE LR WHAT IT IS (OR WAS)!!!!!
 

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more hijacking, serg, but you gave the green light.

Terry and Skizzle (i like that), you guys both are far more knowledgable than i about the heritage of the LR and you certainly have more know-how when it comes to working on them. I don't disagree with either of you. This is just my take.

Through history, change is generally a good thing. Hell, without evolution, where would we be. We'd still be hunting mastodons and dragging our women around by the hair (some change isn't so good).

The morphing of LR's image is a given, which I know you both understand. I'm just not a fan of the current trend. It's all about what you got in the garage and what that garage is attached to. It's all about oneupsmanship. If my neighbor has a Rubicon, I'm gonna get an H3. If he has an LR3, I'll get an H2. The industry is catering to those with the disposable income, and by and large, that group isn't interested in hitting the dirt and rocks. Then again, Ford is in it for the money, and considering the pending demise of GM, they're gonna do whatever it takes to stay afloat. If that means bastardizing the LR marquee, then so be it (from their perspective).

For those of us who aren't in competition with our peers, the whole thing blows. I feel very fortunate to be able to own a fairly rare vehicle in my D90. One of the main reasons I love it so much is for that very reason. I am not a conformist (except when it comes to this forum) and refuse to go out and purchase a Chevy Tahoe, a Ford Expedition or one of the other dime-a-dozen rigs. When my wife's D1 dies, we will definitely look into what Ford/LR has to offer. If I don't like what I see, I'm gonna push for a Quigley.

I sincerely hope there is a Defender line of some sort, and I hope as consumers will be able to build the vehicle to our specifications as opposed to being saddled with all the unnecessary techno crap. A utilitarian offering would be great.

As for waving, I've never received a wave while driving my D90 from anyone except an RRC driver and one dude driving a Freelander. I get way more looks from CJ/YJ drivers than anything else.
 

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Griff, at the risk of being so freakin wordy, I make myself sick, let me C&P what I said on 7/30 re the imaginary Land Rover. I think alot of the diehards think alike,

" Keeping in mind that I cut my teeth in the Land Rover genre some 30 plus years ago. there is little common today with what drew me to the brand back then. The basic, utility concept has been lost on any models imported into the US in the past 8 years, and while the company still builds Defenders, I have to base my interest in the brand on what is available to me.
I started out in Land Rovers with your basic Series 2A and spent 7 or 8 years refining, repairing, and rebuilding just about every part of that truck. I had several other series trucks over the years, but was without them for quite awhile, until My son got his first car, a '93 RRC. Both of my sisters had classics, and I never remember feeling pangs of longing to get back to the brand when they had them, but have since learned to appreciate that car after my son got his. About 5 years ago I bought a fire damaged NAS110 at the insurance company auction in FL and totally rebuilt it to new, and it has and continues to serve my daily needs well. Several years ago, I also bought a nice '71 S2A, basically the same as my first Landie, but it sat until recently when I began a nut and bolt restoration, which I am in the process of now. All of the reasons I first was attracted to the brand have come home.
My son also has a '97 XD Disco, and I have become accustomed to the refinement of that car over the basic level of comfort experienced in a Defender. I visit the dealership often enough to know that anything offerd by Land Rover today, while seemingly a substantially refined vehicle compared to the Disco and the RRC, embodies nothing of the spirit of the cars that got me so enthusiastic years back.
Car manufactured rarely look backwards, unless of coarse you consider some of the retro models offerd, such as the PT Cruiser, and that chevy thing, whose only connection may be in styling. Manufacturers are substantially driven by the implimentation of technology, as interpreted by customer demand. It seems pretty unlikely to me that they would lend any ear to a cry for something "like they used to make".
While there have been huge changes in the basic Land Rover, from original series truck, to the most current Defender, there has been a strong continuity through the years in style, construction and use.
Had I not been so connected to the brand for so long, I have come to realize that I would be very unlikely to be attracted to it today. Each current model seems to fall very much into a catagory, of which there are many competitors, distinguished by country of origin, bling, and price. Land Rover has a much more difficult task today, drawing new blood into the family, because of this large number of competitors. Owner loyalty certainly helps, but eventually all of us 'old timers' are going to be gone, those of us who remember where Land Rover came from. I also seriously doubt there are many people who walk into the showroom and buy a new Range Rover that would even consider buying a Defender, they are that dissimilar.
If I could expect the company to sell me a new car today, it would have to be substantially similar in concept to that which got me into the first one.
Standards and safety requirements pretty much preclude the likelyhood of that. ".
 

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yeah, terry, i read that. i see where you're coming from and can appreciate it.

another couple of thoughts...

the ad with the H2 or H3 on safari,which i haven't seen by the way, is crap. the species of animals that live on those african plains wouldn't accept a GM product roaming around. they're accustomed to LRs. besides, no Hummer driver would ever subject their ride to that kind of dust.

and to say another thing abour today's SUV owner. as we've all mentioned before, it's all about giant rims and fat pipes. for example, an aquaintance of mine drives an H2. he's flashy with highlights in his hair, the latest shades (that don't offer any sun/glare protection) and a swagger. he bought an H2 because it epitomizes what he stands for. he put the big ol' rims on it and the rig is always sparkling. he'll never see the dirt, and he admits it. he has no idea what my D90 is and doesn't care. it's smaller and not tricked out like his H2, so he wins. he'd buy a Range Rover if he could afford it, but wouldn't give a rat's ass about the vehicle's heritage. in my opinion, this the prevailing mindset, at least in my area. guess i have to move.
 

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GriffSC said:
it's all about giant rims and fat pipes. for example, an aquaintance of mine drives an H2. he's flashy with highlights in his hair, the latest shades (that don't offer any sun/glare protection) and a swagger. he bought an H2 because it epitomizes what he stands for. he put the big ol' rims on it and the rig is always sparkling. he'll never see the dirt, and he admits it. he has no idea what my D90 is and doesn't care. it's smaller and not tricked out like his H2, so he wins. he'd buy a Range Rover if he could afford it, but wouldn't give a rat's ass about the vehicle's heritage. in my opinion, this the prevailing mindset, at least in my area. guess i have to move.
Yeah, well don't bother moving, you neighborhood doesn't have a monopoly on them, they're evrywhere. Double income, overmortgaged houses with pristine lawns, and expendable. They're the first to go when there's a market downturn.
 

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Ah, this is interesting.

Waves? I usually get gawks when driving the series truck around. Mostly from younger kids...maybe Mutual of Omaha's wild kingdom is still being shown on cable somewhere. I too will get more waves from people in clapped out CJs than Disco drivers, who are usually too busy jibber-jabbering on their cell phones to see what's around them...heh.

Yes, LR has an image and it has to keep up appearances, but the bottom line is, well, the bottom line, LR is there to make money and if they can make money by selling a Civic with AWD, they will do it.

I'm glad these people can blow so much money on a 75$k rover. That way, in 10 years, when it's lost 90% of it's value, the rest of us can drive it on the trail.

I once had a Nissan Xterra, it was a great truck, but the thing that bugged me the most about owning a newer vehicle was watching the thing depreciate. I'd rather drive a beater and invest the money either into my 401k, roth or savings accounts. But, hey, if someone wants to take out a second mortgage on the house to "invest" in a depreciationmobile, who am I to complain. Heck, if everyone thought like me the economy would grind to a halt...

Yeah, the world is full of people that need to "win"...have the biggest truck, get to the stoplight first etc etc...patience little grasshopper...

Bogatyr
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I gotta be honest here...

Almost NO new American car appeals to me.. the designs are just horrid.. I am cut from the European cloth, as such I am attracted to OLDER BMW, Alfa, Fiat, Lancia, Porsche etc designs...

The new LR3 does nothing for me.. I am glad that it is there, as it will bring more sales to LR and hopefully spawn some neat new products.

The H2, H3... ugh.... not interested...

Give me a Lamborghini LM002.. if anyone does not know what it is, here is a pic.. similiar lines to a Hummer.. useless as well :D .. but will do 120MPH in the sand and it is bad ass.. IMO



 

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Serg said:
I gotta be honest here...

Almost NO new American car appeals to me.. the designs are just horrid.. I am cut from the European cloth, as such I am attracted to OLDER BMW, Alfa, Fiat, Lancia, Porsche etc designs...

The new LR3 does nothing for me.. I am glad that it is there, as it will bring more sales to LR and hopefully spawn some neat new products.

The H2, H3... ugh.... not interested...

Give me a Lamborghini LM002.. if anyone does not know what it is, here is a pic.. same lines as the Hummer.. useless as well.. but will do 120MPH in the sand and it is bad ass.. IMO



WoW!!! I saw one of those when I was in Saudi!! They use them as border controll vehicles. They just hurl themselves accross the sand like nothing.Fun to watch!!!!
 
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