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Wounded Knee Moderator
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
A one sided debate raged over why an individual should or shouldn't cut and splice his 02 sensor wires to repair melted insulation.

This is to alleviate that debate from his thread, as usual a hijack in progress, I've created this thread.

This is what I found.

In automotive applications the titania sensor, unlike the zirconia sensor, does not require a reference sample of atmospheric air to operate properly. This makes the sensor assembly easier to design against water contamination. While most automotive sensors are submersible, zirconia-based sensors require a very small supply of reference air from the atmosphere. In theory, the sensor wire harness and connector are sealed. Air that leaches through the wire harness to the sensor is assumed to come from an open point in the harness - usually the ECU which is housed in an enclosed space like the trunk or vehicle interior.
This is a direct cut and paste from Wikipedia.org.

J.E. Robinson had a great article on his Blog site which if you love Rovers as much as I do you've read his awesome articles in the past to maintain your Rover. Titania responds quickly and lasts longer - 100,000 mile life cycle. Zirconia are shorter life. The article on the oxygen sensors is gone sadly but here is a link to other articles;

Robison on Rovers reading

Oxygen sensor links:

https://www.ngk.de/en/technology-in-detail/lambda-sensors/design-of-lambda-sensors/ Initial page, info in drop down menu and all over page. Great site.

https://www.boschautoparts.com/en/auto/oxygen-sensors/premium-oxygen-sensors Bottom of this page there are PDF's

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yttrium This is a filler material used in modern O2's sensors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentration_cell Nernst Cell, used in making oxygen ions for the reference gas. This does away with O2 ions in wire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_sensor Obvious but there are many links to further your knowledge.


Enjoy poop shooters!
 

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So......One has to read between the lines to find the answer to
the question? Didn't Fishstick splice his re-attaching using solder
links with out issue?.....at least that's what I last read.......

Dunno.....your the boss, just asking....
 

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Wounded Knee Moderator
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'm as much a boss as a butterfly is an F22.

Fishsticks did the right thing and so is Zach. That's what that post craptasticaly says in 90000 characters.

Butt meat want's to play where's dildo with every thread so I again am removing all the crap from that users thread by creating this one.

Let the balled up fisting session begin.
 

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So.....back to the meat of the sandwich.........
It's something we can get away with (you feel) if we use
solder connections.....like those used in aircrafts..........

Tell you what, I've been using the crap out of them and
am quite impressed......

Oh and if I ever become 'buttmeat, please delete any
thing I write....sometimes Mom mixes the Koolaid a little strong......
 

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Wounded Knee Moderator
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I promise not to tell ur Mom a thing....... promise.

Who's Tater Sauce?

Yes, use the living snot out of those aircraft style solder connections, like dreadlocks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ready and willing here. I've been yak'n with the guy who owns the Callaway all afternoon........ I asked for the bottom line, just waiting on that response too.
 

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Ya know......I 'only' use Zirconia based grinding wheels in my
shop......Like 'exclusively' old school.....coincidence? I think
not......actually have to reorder in the morning!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The early Range Rovers and Discovery 1's with the Lucas Hotwire EFI system used Titania sensors. The Later D1's, and everything after, use Zirconia sensors.
Prove it! You just typing words says diddly squat.

Also I was looking up Robinsons post on the 98 Disco he changed out the O2's on with the Tornado chips added. It's been scrubbed from the site unfortunately OR I'd be putting in your face. 98 NAS Discovery was GEMS bud.
 

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Prove it! You just typing words says diddly squat.
Just look up the part numbers and look what they are made of.
This is reasonably typical. You can post that they are with out any proof, when I state that they aren't, I have to prove it. Then, no matter what I post as proof, you will want to argue with it. Therefore people can simply look up the part numbers and see what they are made of.

I will admit I am wrong again. I forgot about the GEMS motor. They also used the Titanium sensors. They all use the same titanium part number ERR1834
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Just look up the part numbers and look what they are made of.
This is reasonably typical. You can post that they are with out any proof, when I state that they aren't, I have to prove it. Then, no matter what I post as proof, you will want to argue with it. Therefore people can simply look up the part numbers and see what they are made of.

I will admit I am wrong again. I forgot about the GEMS motor. They also used the Titanium sensors. They all use the same titanium part number ERR1834
Forget the Land Rover part number how about proving a manufacture statement that says what type of material they're made of. I went directly to Bosch and found nothing on the materials used..... NADA! So how do you know what's being used. https://www.boschautoparts.com/en/auto/oxygen-sensors/premium-oxygen-sensors?partID=15175

Can anyone help, Ian sure can't. I can't find any definitive material used so far in his method of simply pulling up the part number and it tells you everything you wan't to know........ always passes the buck.
 

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The Land Rover part number is MHK100930 and MHK100920. The Bosch equivalent part number is 0258005176 and you can find the details here https://au.bosch-automotive-shop.co...view&_58_struts_action=/login/forgot_password which states that it is zirconium.

The reason that many do not say what they are made out of is that it is assumed to be Zirconium. Manufacturers using titanium ones are as rare as rocking horse ****. They are also not interchangeable. Both each type gives out completely different readings.
 

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So what is the verdict? Is it OK to cut and solder wires on the O2 connectors?
No for zirconium sensors, which are used on 100% of modern vehicles and 99.9% of all vehicles.. The sensor uses the wiring as a snorkel to draw air into the sensor. By soldering it, you effectively cut off the air supply and the sensor will not give a correct reading.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
The Land Rover part number is MHK100930 and MHK100920. The Bosch equivalent part number is 0258005176 and you can find the details here https://au.bosch-automotive-shop.co...view&_58_struts_action=/login/forgot_password which states that it is zirconium.
Simply putting this line out does it for me;
The heated sensor contains a mix of oxides including zirconium, yttrium and other elements to form a tough base, for best-in-class performance and maximum service life.
So what I found was this from Bosch Motorsport about the so called required reference gas (oxygen) -
There are diverse ways to produce this reference gas. The easiest one is to take the reference oxygen out of the air. An air chamber in the sensor sources the oxygen through the strands of the connecting cable. Therefore it is essential to keep the plug connector free from pollution, e.g. contact spray.
Another much better method is to produce the reference oxygen in the sensor. For this a special element (pumping cell) in the ceramic provides the reference gas with a fed, so called pumping current. The
actual measuring of the different oxygen concentrations happens in the Nernst cell; named after the innovator Prof. Walther Nernst (1864 – 1941). Due to the ion exchange (similar to the potential differ- once and the resulting current flow in a battery) develops a potential difference in the Nernst cell, which enables a current flow (the oxygen ions).
The whole PDF is available here if you'd like to read it, good stuff.. http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/media/catalog_resources/Lambda_sensors_enpdf~3.pdf
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
No for zirconium sensors, which are used on 100% of modern vehicles and 99.9% of all vehicles.. The sensor uses the wiring as a snorkel to draw air into the sensor. By soldering it, you effectively cut off the air supply and the sensor will not give a correct reading.
That's bs...... you haven't read the entire post I just put up....... too bad for you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
You need to stick your nose a litter further into what you say dude. So in fact the zirconia does require a reference gas and how many wires does it take to produce the reference gas? Doesn't say all four does it. Nope. Zach was not butchering all four wires to fix his pigtail off the BCM's loom to the O2 sensor, he had maybe two wires skinned/melted and was asking about an intermediate tail/connection between the BCM and the O2 connector, from the connector to the O2 sensor it was fine but you boldly went off on a tangent in his thread about you CAN'T cut the wires/splice the wires....... he needs six months to struggle it out with his truck and that's all we where trying to help him do, not completely rebuild it. He can't afford to make it factory perfect without putting allot of money into a new wire loom. Do YOU understand?
 
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